Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. Degru

    Degru Facebook Friend

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    Vista also killed DirectSound3D and set back 3D game audio for years.. I'm more salty about that than anything else because playing something like UT2004 on an old XP machine with a Soundblaster card is truly an amazing experience. Even now games are barely getting back up to that level of sound processing.
     
  2. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Yeah, quite a few things I didn't list, but yeah, seems like you all agree and the list could go on. Wonder if any of this has to do with him leaving MS, etc.

    I agree that Apple made mistakes too, but I suspect they got away with it when they broke out in the mid-late 2000's b/c so many parts of Windows were so bad at this time that people just wanted "anywhere but here", which included overpriced but legitimately good (or good enough) for most people Apple stuff.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Despite the failures of HDCD (MS bought Pacific Microsonics), WMA/VC-1, HD-DVD, Zune, he still oversaw thousands of people. Zune was a bad play and there was no way Microsoft would have every caught up to Apple. Microsoft didn't understand cool, lifestyle, and most importantly usability. The Zune device was great; however the Zune Marketplace was a POS. I was an early Zune adopter. HDCD, Microsoft had no idea what to do with - they just sat on it until it became irrelevant and allowed a British wanker to beat them with MQA. VC-1 (patents owned by a consortium) went down along with HD-DVD when it went down in flames. Besides, companies want to use open standards - they don't want to be on the hook for unit royalties. Ultimately, it was the HD-DVD thing was what did him in at Microsoft. There was just no chance unless one finagles deep into their way into the Tech Committee at the MPAA (the major studios). I'm sure he got a nice package from Microsoft.

    That position (VP Consumer Division) required less oversight of thousands of employees and more networking with content owners, wining and dining, charming and beguiling, forming alliances, etc. Microsoft today is better at the latter, they've learned, hired the right people, especially with how successful they've been pushing Azure. Tech is nothing if people don't want to adopt it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  4. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Makes sense.

    I get that "corporate" is hard, politics is hard, all the finagling is hard, a lot of bs'ing/schmozing/perception management is involved and is also hard, and it's not always the best product from a technical standpoint that wins, but regardless things were still quite a mess with most MS products I can think of from this era/time. Even if was only perception and MS products were actually technically superior, I'd be way less inclined to adopt "apparent mess and every other MS product I use has problems every day" than "not an apparent mess".
     
  5. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    A couple of things.

    1) Corporate IS hard, and based on a cursory look of things, Amir did not have it easy at all. In regards to his tenure at MS, I do not envy him. The whole HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray era was a mess. The war extended to the game consoles and in the end Sony won, perhaps because of a better and more entrenched relationship with content owners. Many folks know about this much more than me. But from what I can tell it was not pretty.

    2) I speculated largely on Amir's relationship with Topping and Harman. This is all speculation and all might be coincidental. And then again it might be not. Regardless, Amir has openly declared lately that he may have a bias in favor of some products sometimes due to Madrona interests, and sometimes simply because he just likes some brand or thing. This is obviously not a problem, normal and expected.

    3) ASR is not 100% objective. It is a good source of information. But it is not the science forum. Neither is SBAF fully objective or subjective or perfect. SBAF is in my opinion another good source of information, and more importantly a super awesome place to hang out.

    4) I got pissed when I saw this back-and-forth between Amir and this dude name Marc starting here:

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ter-processor-review.11416/page-4#post-326552

    What went on is that Amir characterized a Monoprice expensive AV processor and he got some strong feedback from Marc (which oddly enough reminds me of NwAvGuy) on many issues. Marc seemed to have a horse in the raise as a Beta tester. I feel Marc had very valid points. These posts however got my attention:

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-processor-review.11416/page-11#post-328088

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-processor-review.11416/page-16#post-328948

    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...er-processor-review.11416/page-16#post-329013

    Even when Amir made characterization mistakes, he will not update the front page. This seems to be a strict ASR policy, and I think that's wrong.

    Anyhow. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    1. @ultrabike for his digital reviews, he didn’t use asio drivers, had weird grounding, didn’t use the products in their sweet spots and level match them, and openly ignored truncation distortion and massive imd in treble. Instead he complained about a ridiculous, inaudible “sabre hump” that’s present in the cleanest and most reliable gear with the ESS DACs. Gear that’s in use every day and is judged to sound good enough, far better than the RME and Chinese hardware he recommends, and stable enough. Universal Audio (made in China now!), MOTU, and Apogee. Apogee is the least reliable of those due to the fans in the symphonies but they sound good He also shat on the Central European Pro-ject DAC, measured the gear with the best blend of sound, electrical, and driver reliability, Lynx, and doesn’t talk about because they’re one of those expensive brands that don’t give hookups. Ever. A lot of expensive pro audio company’s idea of a hookup is pointing you to used unit north of 1000 dollars and giving you the opportunity to send it in for refurbishment at your own cost similar to Schiit’s garage Yggdrasils. Amir has done none of this and frequently measures older gear that there is no way some audiophile maintains. Those switching supplies go bad. All of them. When they go bad, they can hurt the gear. They need to be replaced every once in a while. That’s 100-200 dollars down the drain and more if anything else is broken.
     
  7. oh_okay

    oh_okay New

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    Well, I was JUST banned from that forum after ONLY about four (4) posts-- a new record for me. That said, I never used a profanity or slur.
    WOW. I'm POWERFUL! "Kneel before Zod."
    That crowd is EXTREMELY sensitive to anything other than the Topping-SMSL continuum. But I swear to dog I never mentioned I owned a Schiit Modi Multi.
    Anyway, I've been tryin' to break in to jail again. But no luck -- registrant account keeps gettin' rejected. Man do they have some tight filters. I used a diff. IP (VPN), completely diff. email, and a way different username.
    To quote Flynn (TRON, 1982): "Busted again. And that was my best program."
    "Now that is a big door"
    "Can't quite get the connection with that sucker. Now if I hit a direct terminal ...."
     
  8. Melvillian

    Melvillian Friend

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    This thread is getting weird with the randos.
     
  9. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    I have this weird hunch you're not going to last very long here, either.
     
  10. tranq

    tranq Friend

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    Interesting discussion on the flaming bag of dog shit that so much of ASR is made of. I actually came across this discussion as I was looking for the proper place to read and post LRS impressions... I received a pair of LRSs on Sept 25th. (took 15 weeks to get them).Currently, I've got them in my living room paired with Bifrost 2 and Ragnarok 2.

    They are a pretty awesome pair of speakers, and I say that with too short of cables, a bad room, and poor placement (cable length issue).

    I only have em about 30 ish inches from the wall at this point.

    Running some tone test tracks on low gain (about 65 db - 70 db listening average), you can hear/feel bass at 30hz, down about 10-15 db. and at 40hz its pretty decent. I know the speakers are rated for
    50 hz, but 40hz wasnt bad, only a few db lower then 50hz, and im testing at late night volumes.

    takes high gain to hear anything at 20hz, and even then its not much.

    I should have em in my basement next week, once my 10 ft Zu Libtec cables with bananas arrive. Looking to post proper thoughts then (better room), but so far I love the LRS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2020
  11. Metro

    Metro Friend

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  12. tranq

    tranq Friend

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    Thats just par for the course there. Also if you read alot of the posts, there is one writing style thats seems to come through fairly often.

    Makes me wonder how many accounts Amir has made on both ASR and Head Fi.
     
  13. Degru

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    I had a bit of a giggle on the LCD-X review that got posted today.. he has the gear but has no clue how to use it.

    His idea of measuring distortion is... his usual dashboard view of a single 40hz tone. Yep. We've got SINAD for headphones now.

    He also measures IMD while pushing the headphone as loud as it will go, all the way to 132dB (?!?) in this case. Multitone data is good, but *not like that*.

    So his entire headphone measurement criteria at this point are a) 40hz distortion b) how loud it goes and c) how harman the FR is. Has he never looked at innerfidelity or any other website with headphone measurements, ever?

    Edit: I also just noticed he hasn't even calibrated the levels of his measurement rig yet. Amazing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  15. mk801

    mk801 Almost "Made"

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    Heh. Also, if its FR doesn't match the Harman target, into the trash it goes, lol.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    Selection of 40 Hz is going to paint a very pessimistic result, and it will tilt the scales in favor of sealed designs, which suffer from other short comings. Note that this frequency is not in the critical range which is more around 300 Hz to 3 kHz.

    Furthermore, 132 dB/SPL is too excessive. It does not seem to make sense from a use case standpoint.

    The Harman curve is far from a neutral standard. Following this standard will yield a very bass heavy headphone. The LCD-X seems to nail the bass perfectly. The critical frequency range is going to be difficult with this class of headphones because the large membrane likely seals the ear. The chamber will have no relief, as in most small driver open dynamic headphones, which removes a variable that can be tweaked to optimize response. In that range and in the treble, it would be interesting to compare these headphones with closed back or other large membrane cans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  17. Tachikoma

    Tachikoma Almost "Made"

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    I suppose he enjoys listening to jackhammers up close.
     
  18. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    I find it hard to imagine a neutral sound lover listening to the LCD-X and thinking they were bass shy.
     
  19. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Be nice, guys. He spent "a good number of hours" coming up with and deciding on the 40Hz single tone headphone distortion dashboard.
     
  20. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    I was going to suggest that he's more interested in old fishing-boat engines than music. :eek:
     
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