ZMF New Headphones: Vérité and Aeolus

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Pharmaboy

    Pharmaboy Friend

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    "It's all about system synergy."

    "...Its there to a slight amount, but I have always been of the opinion that small tonal issues are easy to listen through if the rest of the positives of the headphone warrant it."

    "At any rate, the fact that we're even talking about the Verite's flaws actually validates its Golden Schlong."

    Very well put in both posts. Excellent perspective here...
     
  2. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    The Verite: A Strange Headphone

    I received the ZMF Verite today. I bought this pair used, and was assured it had over 200 hours of break-in. It is in silkwood. As many of you know from my reviews, I am prone to new toy syndrome sometimes: when something "wows" me, I am quick to say so. Suffice to say, the Verite did not wow me. I have been struggling over the past four or five hours to mentally articulate why I do not quite like this headphone, and I think I can begin to write about it now. Keep in mind that I have literally only had this headphone for five hours or so, and my impression may very well change once I have sufficient brain burn-in. Definitely going to sleep on things before making any rash decisions. Still, here are my initial impressions when comparing the Verite Open to my HD600 and Aeolus on my SW51+ and Soekris 1321 dac.

    What's Good

    Well, there are certainly some things I enjoy about this headphone. It has a greater level of detail retrieval than any headphone I've heard save the Utopia - and I'm not sure if the Utopia even really outdoes it. That is nice. Its instrument separation, layering, and staging abilities are all a step up from anything I've owned before, including the Aeolus, Auteur, Elex, and Clear. So technically, it performs quite well. It also seems to do dynamics pretty well, though I didn't feel its bass impact was anything spectacular when listening with the Be2 Suede pads. With the Verite pads, bass impact became better, but transients also became too sharp and incisive, which I didn't particularly enjoy. The Verite also generally had an agreeable timbre. While I don't think it was as true to life as that of the Aeolus, it wasn't bothersome and metallic like the Focal headphones, so that's a plus!

    I think that the treble response of this headphone is pretty impressive. It's very easy to hear a lot of detail into it, and its speed makes it very engaging to listen to. Although it's not quite as bright as some other flagship headphones, it nonetheless pops out in a fairly pleasing way, and does not sound noticeably recessed to me. I think that's quite the achievement. Bass is also tight, generally punchy, and well-controlled, though I personally prefer more of a mid-bass hump rather than linear sub-bass to mid-bass response (but that's my personal preference).

    The Not So Good

    Alright, here's what I don't like about the headphone. It's been said before, I suppose, and one can read it off frequency graphs, but what was surprising to me was that not even EQ helped fully ameliorate the problems with the tonality in the headphone. In short, there is a broad - broader than I thought, at least - midrange recession, going from about 1K Hz to 4K Hz. This recession cuts out much of the higher fundamentals and harmonics of human voices and takes away the pop and pluck of many string instruments, making both vocals and string instruments sound muted and lacking in necessary bite and edge. While voices at times possess a nice earthiness, it is difficult to hear their their more airy qualities.

    This would perhaps be made up for if the headphone had a rich, lush mid-range with longer decay, allowing vocals and string instruments to convey a sense of body at the expense of bite - that, at least, is an acceptable tradeoff. But the Verite Open does not have a midrange like this. Instead, notes have a lightning-fast decay, leading mids to be noticeably less lush and warm than on my Aeolus, even if the actual frequency response is pretty similar. For me, there is something pleasing about the way that bass bleeds into the mid-range on the Aeolus, and to a lesser extent, the way that the mid-range bleeds into the treble. This doesn't seem to happen on the Verite. Some people might like the bass' isolation, from the midrange, but I find this leads to the midrange being too lean and quick for me, lacking in euphony and romance, while the upper midrange is too recessed, leading to a midrange that lacks in both edge and body.

    Conclusion

    I found that for the music I listen to, which is generally acoustic, vocal-oriented indie, rock, and classical, the HD600 and Aeolus are generally better picks, despite lacking in some of the technical prowess of the Verite. With the Verite, I perpetually felt (even with EQ) that something about the tonality is just off, and while some songs sound absolutely fantastic, other feel very uneven in their presentation. The biggest culprit here, I think, is the odd mid-range presentation, which takes a backseat to the two extremes of the music while lacking in the richness that I enjoyed so much on the Aeolus.

    Someone very wise said here, not too long ago, that just because the Verite was the most expensive ZMF headphone, that didn't mean it was the best for everyone. I naturally failed to heed this wisdom. Perhaps I have now learned my lesson.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  3. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    The SW51+ is an excellent amp, but its not the end all be all (I thought it was a step below my old T3) and may not be a good match for that headphone. The SW51 I heard was certainly warm enough for me to stay away from anything ZMF (could've been the tubes). The Verite did not have the shortcomings you mentioned on the DNA Starlet for instance. This is first time I've heard it being described as lacking body or romance. It's one of the most romantic, thick headphones I've ever heard. But the Starlet's claim to fame is its midrange, which probably does wonders for the Verite, which does have a bit of an upper mid suckout. I feel like Verite is one of those headphones that shouldn't be bought until a TOTL amp is in the chain. But that's just me.
     
  4. dematted

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    Fair enough. I'm not sure if it really didn't have those qualities at all in the mid-range, but compared to the HD600, and especially the Aeolus, it felt a little lacking in the romance department. Very well might have something to do with Shortest Way 51, which is a bit leaner sounding. Thanks for the advice!
     
  5. perogie

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    Just curious if you had the Universe pads on hand to try. You may find it more to your liking. I would consider it the most "romantic" of the Verite pads. IMO, its what kind of make the Verite the Verite if you know what I mean.
     
  6. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    I do have those on hand! I was actually wary of those just because I heard they caused even more of a dip in the upper mids, but I will try them soon!
     
  7. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    I strongly suspect this is the tubes. The SW51+ I heard with the stock tubes did not resemble a warm amp by any means; sounded very neutral and clean.

    I wouldn't necessarily say TOTL, but @ColtMrFire has a point; the Verite is a bit picky. Not as amp picky as Auteur, but picky nonetheless. In my experience, the Verite was more source-picky than anything else (although this could be because I was already using it out of a Starlett).

    From the sound of it the Verite just doesn't agree with you and that's okay. There's a reason I'm so hesitant to recommend the Verite willy-nilly despite the fact that I love mine.

    This is a general characteristic of ZMFs (see the relevant measurement threads which are also linked in the ZMF compendium).

    I suspect where you're having the disconnect is from the reverb characteristics. The Verite has measurable and audible resonance (look at those CSDs). @cskippy's measurements of the Verite pads and Universe pads show that the reverb changes depending on pads, and in my experience this is definitely audible. With the Verite pads, the reverb is still present, but it blends in more with the FR and decay characteristics (if that even makes sense). Universe pads let the cup reverb play out without shame, and it extends up quite far; up to about 1k.

    Also note the Verite is very sensitive to position on the head; takes some messing about to really dial it in.

    I still stand by what I said above; might just not be for you. The Verite is very polarizing.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  8. perogie

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    There will still be some. But the resonance effects that @ChaChaRealSmooth mentioned are much more audible and may be a more pleasant experience for you, which may make up for it. I’ve seen some comparison measurements that suggest the Universe pads may have a touch more energy at 1-4K but it’s not huge and the pad material can alter that too.
    If you couldn’t EQ it out it may just be true that it’s not for you. It’s good that you are honest with yourself about it. Good luck with the Uni pads.
     
  9. Ksaurav402

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    Hmmm... I never had this mid range recession issue out of my Ziricote VO and I guess Metrum Onyx DAC may be helping me here. Metrum DACs have Vocals pushed in front and may be that’s why I never noticed.
     
  10. Pharmaboy

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    I have a silkwood VO that (for reasons I can't imagine) sounds even better than the loaner VO I had last Dec (can't recall that wood). I tried that loaner on 5 or 6 amps (5 SS; 1 OTL); and so far have tried the silkwood VO on 3 SS amps, the best being the V281.

    The sound of this VO has been routinely excellent, beyond reproach. Try as I might, I hear no midrange recession; slight congestion in upper mids (ie, described as hard to untangle instrumental/human "voices"); or the overall romantic sound. Obviously the VO is not perfect (no headphone is that)--but to my ears, it doesn't exhibit the flaws others here point out (sometimes w/the aid of frequency graphs).

    Of course, subjectivity enters into it: I generally prefer a slightly warm, romantic sound (in headphones, amps, speakers) & my hearing may have changed over the years.

    Last night I did a rather (for me) focused head-to-head comparison of the silkwood VO (w/perf lambskin universe/stock pads) vs blackwood Aeolus (w/perf. suede universe pads/not stock); amp was V281; DAC was MHDT Labs Orchid NOS. Still in the process of writing it up. Key points:
    • The Aeolus is an overtly romantic, somewhat bassy & diffuse-sounding HP, though you can push it quite a ways towards more air, detail, flatter bass, and less resonance by using Verite pads. It's also easily the most "fun," exciting, make-me-smile headphone in my experience;
    • The silkwood VO, despite slight warmth overall, is very detailed & resolving top to bottom. It also consistently exhibits what I call "tonal purity" (just about every note, sung or played, sounds utterly right, natural, as it would IRL).
    Interestingly enough, they both kill on every genre I try (anything from ethereal classical to pounding electronic). And both seem amp-agnostic, which is a priceless quality in any HP IMO...

    There were no losers in that comparison--I'm nuts about both headphones. I'm also filled with admiration for the balancing act Zach/ZMF accomplished w/the VO--somehow marrying a very detailed, high-resolution driver to the ZMF "house sound."
     
  11. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I think you are on to something here when you link the cup resonance in the sub 1k to the "bbc dip" of the 2-4k and how the two combine to give an over all impression of "congestion" and "lack of air" in the mids - all this despite the drivers obvious technical abilities. At times are these technical attributes being swamped by the reverb and the FR suck out? It would seem so. Do mid centered/emphasized chains mitigate these facts? I would say yes...
     
  12. dematted

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    I tried the universe stock pads last night, and listened to them again this morning. I like these pads the most out of any of them. No, they don't fix the tonality issues which I am having, but they do something different: they give the Verite a very unique sonic presentation I don't think I've heard before, with spooky 3-dimensional layering and a timbre that I find much more seductive, if still a bit colored.

    Previously, I felt like I was trying to turn the Verite into a 6x0 with the other pads and some EQ; now, with these pads and no EQ, I feel like I'm letting the Verite adopt its own sonic character. I'm not quite sure I like it, but its certainly unique and engrossing in its own way. I suppose what bothers me most, though, is still a feeling that the overall presentation isn't quite natural: someone remarked that the Verite tugs at your heartstrings, and while this is true, at times it feels like it is -trying- too hard to do so. The cup reverb is spooky and fun, but doesn't feel natural or "right". I would honestly love to have a pair of headphones like this as my 2nd or 3rd headphone because of how unique they are, but I don't think I can justify owning them only alongside the HD600.
     
  13. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    Was the Universe pad lambskin? I personally really dislike the suede ZMF pads and vastly prefer the sound of lambskin pads.

    Interesting that you found the Verite pad to be too incisive (also assuming this is lambskin); I would think those pads would fix a lot of the problems you're having with Verite (also this is the reason why I don't think this headphone is for you).
     
  14. dematted

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    The universe and verite pad are both lambskin. The Verite pads showcased the incredible technicalities of the Verite, but the decay felt way too quick and the music as a whole sounded artificially fast to me. Playing Paul Simon's "I know what I know" (which is admittedly a pretty fast song) it quite simply sounded as if the music was sped up, with everything entering and leaving the soundscape way too quickly. Timbre also felt more off with this pad than any of the others I have tried, likely because of this effect. I imagine this is an incredible sound for ambient, electronic, and some classical music, but it doesn't work for me with classic rock and roll, modern indie music, or most acoustic music.

    I think my favorite ZMF is the Aeolus, which is the least expensive open-back, though I would like to give the Auteur a second-shake, since I feel I dismissed it too quickly and wasn't pairing it with particularly capable or synergistic gear.
     
  15. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    Wise move.
     
  16. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    My experience, with both Veritès:

    1. Burn in for 400hrs on the stand
    2. What the f**k is this midrange suck out, gimme neutral pads
    3. 2 weeks trying verite lamb and verious suede pads, liking none, also I really need to remember i hate suede
    4. Try leather universe/be2 out of frustration, wait lemme listen some more
    5. Months pass
    6. Realize I have other headphones apart from Veritè, consider selling them all

    I'd like to think I've learned from this expedience, but that's be lie.
    :drunk:
     
  17. Pharmaboy

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    HAHAHA!

    My Aeolus drove at least 2 headphones from my collection out into the wilderness (w/a 3rd maybe on the way). Then in comes the silkwood VO (heavenly sound), and the only thing that's driving is -- me/crazy. Because I can't listen to 2 amazing headphones at the same time...
     
  18. ColtMrFire

    ColtMrFire Writes better fan fics than you

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    It took you that long to try the Universe? I wont even consider Verite without those pads.
     
  19. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Both VO & VC started with universe leather.

    VO ended with Be2, VC with Universe.
     
  20. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    @dematted fair enough. Sorry if it seemed like I was giving you a hard time; sometimes I can be a bit blunt and confrontational trying to probe out information.

    FWIW, I roll the pads based on amp. Through EC Ultralinear, Universe pads, and through Starlett I use Verite pads (both lambskin).

    The Verite is just a really weird headphone. Definitely one of those where you either love it or hate it. Both the Auteur and Aeolus are much easier blind recommendations (although considering how much they cost I still hesitate on telling people to buy it without audition).
     

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