Nearfields for audiophile listening?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by sashafuckinggrey, Feb 27, 2016.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No. Buy passive speakers and an beefy amp.

    unless you step down to something like Neumann KH120 or Yamaha HS8, which still might hiss slightly. What you own is a lot better than them.
     
  2. Paweł Dąbek

    Paweł Dąbek New

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2020
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Lublin
  3. saint.panda

    saint.panda Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    538
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NYC / Berlin
    Not sure if the question makes sense: I'm curious what DAC would particularly suit a nearfield setup that does soundstage well and even better if it has an analogue volume control. Currently using the Sonnet Morpheus, which I don't love for how it does soundstage and for being a bit too mellow in combination with the Harbeth.
    Comparing Morpheus to Wavedream, the latter does everything better but it's the soundstage piece that I would most like to improve on.
     
  4. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    4,276
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't want to sound harsh, but I'd rather swap out speakers than multiple kiloeuro DACs to improve soundstage.
     
  5. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Estonia
    What about the soundstage do you want to improve?
    The Morpheus is NOS, right - so it won't be impressive wrt depth and imaging.

    @Hrodulf is right. The Wavedream is probably several leagues above the rest of your chain.
     
  6. saint.panda

    saint.panda Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    538
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    NYC / Berlin
    I quite like the tone of the Harbeth and think they're capable of better, albeit not still amazing, soundstage and imaging based on the experience with the Wavedream.

    Correct, Soundstage is a bit flat with Morpheus. Sorry, I wasn't clear. I'm using the Wavedream in a different system with headphones, and just used it on the speaker system to see where the Morpheus is falling short.
     
  7. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    I have Adam A7X, in your price range and they do not hiss, I got them after trying a number of alternatives, they all hissed.
    The woofer amp is class D I think, the ribbon twitter is powered by German AB class amp. Listen to them, they require a careful setup and they have very little off-axis dispersion.
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Good speakers. They're not flat but they sound great. The sweet spot is tiny though so most audiophiles fail with them and the other AMT monitors. The cheaper Adams with the Chinese tweeters are garbage though. But the A7X... Bring it to most dealers and hifi shows, and if Brit-fi doesn't show up, it's usually the best speaker there and they sell it at Guitar Center.
     
  9. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    This world of active near and mid filed monitors is more and more attractive to me. I got into the headphone game because I thought that there is no way I can get a good two channel sound in my living room without spending the amount of dough I was not willing to spend. And that TOTL will get me to better place just by eliminating the room factor and delivering the details i could not hear.
    But the technology and prices changed. I compare my headphone stable, which by current standard is "cheap":HD800S, HEkv2, some less expansive stuff, plus Bryston amp to to the cost a simple two channel system in my living room I am having second thoughts. Dirac Live miniDSP room correction, and A7X with small SVS subs give me more kick than headphones taht at some point were TOTL.

    I am thinking about moving A7X to the desk, getting a decent 3 way active monitors for living room, and selling the rest.
    I will probably keep my moded HE500 that sound great from Kann Cube on high gain.
     
  10. bilboda

    bilboda Florida boomer

    Pyrate Banned
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    834
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Miama
    Odd. The first thing I noticed with the Morpheus was the greatly expanded sound stage with my Drop JBL's. It simply blew up in 3 dimensions. Maybe speaker placement and room treatments should be explored.
     
  11. EagleWings

    EagleWings Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,709
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    India
    Why not a non-signature Wavedream?
     
  12. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Three way active costs a lot for the good and big stuff. Might as well go passive and get a sicko power amp.
     
  13. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2019
    Likes Received:
    1,617
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Layla
    Only if their mids are not f'ing dead.
    The $150 JBL 305mkii have way better mids, it's more dynamic and alive with actual texture.

    I gave the Adams a good BAL signal and they still have sucky mids. Sucky in absolute term not just for their price.
     
  14. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    Not from my listening chair, at least according to my ears and FR measurement using Dirac Live and Umik-1. But..they are very difficult, to the level I have not I experienced before that would be so different from any mid fi or audiophile speakers. Particularly huge difference between off and on axis dispersion.
    But after high passing them with miniDSP I have very few complains. But even now when I turn off Dirac filters I do not particularly like when I hear, but I never liked any setup in my living room before anyway.
     
  15. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,345
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They have noticeable suckout and an off frequency response but are usable if learned.

    AMTs lack inner detail but there simply isn't enough easy to buy competition for the Adam A7X. The KRK V6S4, HS8, and ATC SCM 12 all do somethings much better. A lot of the competition doesn't even try to reproduce timbre properly.
     
  16. yunie_

    yunie_ Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2018
    Likes Received:
    69
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Singapore
    Here's an interesting video comparing numerous studio monitors for Hifi listening



    HEDD Type 07
    - This speakers stand out the most and won the shootout being a huge favourite for one of the reviewer.
    - I don't think its fair since the PSI a14 is compared instead of PSI a17. But then again, a14m is still more expensive than HEDD 07
    - The reviewer says it is really good for the money, but not as good as his Dali Rubicon 2 (not sure if he meant the passive or active rubicon)
    - HEDD type 07 mk2 is releasing in Jan 2021 with phase control and port blockers.

    PSI a14m
    -
    Ranked 2nd by reviewers
    - Reviewers are very impressed by the sound stage put out by these
    - Very, very expensive
    - I personally heard this and found the sound put out by these unbelievable in terms of scale and soundstage. But I heard the PSI a14 placed 2 meters apart, and two meters above ground. So maybe the placement makes the scale larger?

    Neumann kh120

    - ranked third but nothing to shout about since the speakers ranked the last 3 are budget speakers <$400
    - described as very flat and accurate, but sterile sounding. doesn't make the reviewers tap their toes to it
    - I owned these previously and totally agree to the reviewers. They are great in bass and fast sounding, but they really can suck out all the emotions from my most emotive songs. I don't understand how a speaker can does that so prolifically. This confirmed @Psalmanazar description that the 120a and 310 are very dry sounding
    - I find these the most beautiful looking speakers though. Especially in white.

    Behringer
    -
    ranked last, but is praised for its value for money being around $200
    - People who is tight on budget should try this out

    I am looking to get a new pair of active speakers and am very very interested in PSI a17m. But since HEDD 07 mk2 is coming out as well, I was wondering if anyone has heard either the HEDD or PSI a17m before?
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  17. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    Usable is very good description of A7X. Those are not audiophile or casual listening speakers. But with the right setup, IMO with subs and measured high pass, they are great for critical listening at least for my use case. I am focused on details, instrument separation, stereo image, tightly controlled bass. Could never get it in my living room before, even for a single listening position.
     
  18. firev1

    firev1 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Singapore
    I thought I talk a little about Geithain RL906 after listening to them for about a month or so? For context my DAC is the RTX6001, an AK4490 based DAC. My main listening rig is a DHSA 2 with modded HD800s so yeah take that in context.

    These are very general impressions so maybe not entirely useful in the grand scheme of things.

    Looks wise, they are really small, smaller than the JBL 305s they replace, seems more like a 4incher than a 5inch speaker. The ports facing upwards worries me in terms of dirt and objects getting ingested so I have them covered when not in use ^^;

    My situation is kinda in a tight deskbound kinda space where the speakers are approximately in a 1.2m equilateral triangle with my listening position with 1 side having a disproportionate amount of boundary gain, so really, not much space to flex soundstage wise (this will change in while.
    Setting these up, on-axis the tweeter is a bit bright at the listening position with toe in applied, I don't mind it too much and rather have it on axis than off.

    So how they sound? I can't provide many comparisons at the moment but here is what I think,

    1. The bass response while certainly not subwoofer level, goes down fairly smooth, even in my shitty room, significantly better than the JBL 305 here.
    2. Youtube compression is obvious but does not sound as bad as how the Genelecs 8020D reveals it. I feel both speakers are revealing in that aspect of distortion but the Gennies makes it sound even worse.
    3. Detailed midrange with good sustain, especially with piano stuff you can tell it has balls.
    4. The cabinet has a fair bit of vibration despite being well built, I will eventually attempt to quantify it, the Gennies in comparison are extremely dead. They require isolation for sure, some sorbothane hemis helps with the low midrange.
    5. The coaxial design helps with my current listening distance. Its really welcome to have that better cohesiveness of tweeter/woofer. Wide sweet spot.
    6. No hiss unless you have your ear right up to the drivers.

    I think for the same price I paid with shipping I would be looking at a Proac SCM100 + Hypex MP or Vidar if I stretch. Unfortunately I don't really have the space to accommodate a larger setup so this is a good compromise.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
  19. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    14,130
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    India
    Very interesting. That was nearly my most expensive hifi purchase, but I didn't get them because someone failed to repay a debt at that time. Shame: still kind-of wish I had.
     
  20. seamon

    seamon Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2016
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Indiana
    Got a pair of Raidho XT1 to replace my Kef LS50. The Planar tweeter def have a very different response to the Kef LS50 tweeter. Here are measurements in my room with a pair of Rel T5i. Driving the speakers with a Crown CDi1000
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Before and after Room correction EQ.

    Edit: Yep, these are not for Nearfield Listening. I might move them to a full room setup

    Graph with solved Phase issues

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020

Share This Page