Donald North Audio — Owners Thread

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by Huxleigh, Aug 12, 2016.

  1. dematted

    dematted Friend

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    I actually should revise my comments about heft and weight: I was listening to my headphones with the low gain, and once I switched to the higher IEC option, as @pure5152 suggested to me, this issue was mostly alleviated. Most of the other commentaries still hold, but definitely prefer the sound on higher gain, which has a bit more sense of authority to the low-end imo, but still lacks the punchiness of a good solid state or the SW51+, imo.

    If I'm to be completely frank, a DNA amp + 650 and Bifrost 2 sounds like a snoozefest to me. But we all have our sonic preferences, and I suppose in the end it's about building a system that fits them :).

    That's very interesting. I've read a lot of members here, from Atomicbob to Jexby, comment that they really enjoyed the way that the SW51+ worked with the Bifrost 2. I've yet to try it with one of the faster sounding sources you mentioned - perhaps something I'll be able to try in a future day, but I personally enjoy the Bifrost 2 and SW51+ combo a lot (though I don't have much to compare it to source-wise, in all honesty).
     
  2. Melvillian

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    I was worried people would think I was saying it's not a good pairing. It's just that I like the Callia + SW51+ + HD650 combination better and it really highlights the strengths of the SW51+ as an amp.
     
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  3. Mystic

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    HD600 pairs better with the Sonett 2 than the 650. Sonett 2 + BF2 is very laid back, if that's your thing. I love the pairing but my main headphone is the HD800.

    Auteur plus Sonett 2 is great but really needs a lively tube or a more forward dac. The real magic happens with the HD800. I have never heard the HD800 have more heft or slam than it does out of a Sonett 2. Easily one of my favorite pairings in the hobby. I'd even say the Sonett 2 beats the pants off the ZDS when it comes to synergy with that particular headphone.
     
  4. crenca

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    Looking for input on two questions about my Starlett (and DNA amps in general) I thought I would drop here after a search fail in this thread and others:

    1) What does the selectable "balanced" vs. "SE (unbalanced)" on the XLR output actually do since this is a SE topology amp?

    2) I can't find much rational for the 120 ohm output impedance IEC 61938 figure (e.g. here is a limited discussion http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html). Why do DNA amps include this particular Hi Z setting, besides the fact that you have to choose something and why not?
     
  5. HotRatSalad

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    Balanced drive for question one 9ohms. People say it only makes a difference audibly with HD800.
    The 120ohm setting with HD650 was the best thing I've ever heard. Amazing driver control and bass accuracy.
     
  6. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    @crenca doesn't read manuals, it's official. ;)

    Per @ChaChaRealSmooth: XLR input on balanced drive only made a difference on the HD800. He stated don't brother with other headphones via XLR input.

    @Donald North first love are Beyer's. The 120 OHM setting on the IEC switch is the magic number to make the older Beyer models I believe the 300/600 ohm ones sing. @tommytakis had a jizz moment when he was using an older Beyer on the Starlett.

    Of course this 120 ohm # is great with ZMF, Senn 6##, and even some of my IEMs like the Gaudio Nair.
     
  7. crenca

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    Thanks guys. My first question is really a circuit/topology question (I think). Since none of the DNA amps are "bridged" balanced amps, and the OI out of the 4 pin XLR is 9 ohm's no matter what the selection (the right switch, not the left "low/IEC"), what does the selection actually do?

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...nd-better-discussion-for-noobs-and-boobs.733/

    Yes, higher Z will warm things up, but it's interesting what you say about "control" because all else being equal the (electrical) damping is less, and the HD650 is underdamped transducer/HP if memory serves.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  8. HotRatSalad

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    Yes I was always under the impression less dampening (is that the correct word?) Is worse but it was magical sounding to me. Actually could feel pressure from the drivers and it just sounded so right to me. As far as balanced drive is concerned I did ask Donald about the specifics but can't find the info and forget. It was all amplifier circuit/topology stuff though :) still dream of this amp but the wait time kills it for me.
     
  9. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    @HotRatSalad It was worth the wait for me, and it was a deposit. Also, tube amps are hand assembled in these performance tiers.
     
  10. HotRatSalad

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    Yep I had the loaner unit. It is worth it for sure. I just can't see anything 6 + months out lol. We'll see I'll probably cave eventually.
     
  11. ChaChaRealSmooth

    ChaChaRealSmooth SBAF's Mr. Bean

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    The answer is that you don't need a differential, balanced amp to have "true" balanced drive. Yes, DNA is single-ended (they're SET amps, duh), but the secondaries on the output transformers are center tapped (and grounded because safety is important), thus able to provide balanced drive without the topology itself being balanced.

    The simpler explanation is that it offers "true" balanced drive without being a balanced amp itself. As @YMO stated, I don't feel this makes a difference with any headphone not named the HD800. Conceivably there are headphones that benefit that I haven't heard.

    Works well with vintage, high impedance Beyerdynamics, which Donald uses personally. Can be played with on high impedance dynamics to match taste based on source. Personally, unless I'm using my own vintage DT990, I never use the IEC output anymore.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  12. crenca

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    Thanks ChaCha. Any comment as to why/how balanced output (from transformers to HP) would matter? With the relatively short cable runs in typical HP situation (typically <10 feet, though I do have a20 ft SE terminated Mogami cable I use sometimes when I want to spread out ;) ). In other words as far as the objective side of things, such as distortion profile (i.e. amount of 2nd, 3rd, etc.) the amp topoloy before the OP transformers is the significant decider as I understand it. On the subjective side, again the amp topology is the main part as I understand. Is there a difference in the character of the subjective sound of OP transformers in how they are tapped (SE vs bal)? Perhaps so given that you are hearing a difference with at least one HP (HD800).
     
  13. ChaChaRealSmooth

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    There is no difference in the sound at all with most headphones (try this yourself; it's surprising). With HD800, for some reason the HD800 sounds better damped and more resolving with the balanced drive.

    As to why this is the case with HD800....who knows?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  14. Donald North

    Donald North Friend

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    The original purpose was to provide more similar power for a given volume setting regardless if headphones are low or high impedance. If they followed the IEC spec, then plugging in low or high impedance headphones of similar efficiency would play at similar loudness.

    One example use case: some components (cassette deck, CD player, etc) back in the day came with a headphone jack but no volume control.

    Now if a set of headphones were designed with this expected source impedance, then they will only sound “correct” if driven accordingly. A couple other manufacturers also offer 100 or 120 ohm output impedance options.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  15. gurubhai

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    Driver control is not just about damping, you also need adequate power transfer for good control. The high impedance headphones require a lot of voltage swing which is a tough load for a low output impedance amps. A high OI amp can manage that voltage swing more easily, leading to better power transfer and improved driver control.
    It is also one of the reasons that the OTL amps sound great with high impedance headphones.

    AKG K1000 comes to mind with its 120 ohm impedance.
     
  16. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

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    On my Stratus (version 3), there is a subjective difference between outputs as well as impedance settings:

    1) The lower the impedance, the deeper and tighter the bass gets and the less liquid/tube-like the overall presentation is. The lowest setting is 3ohms (6.3mm jack, low impedance and low gain setting) while the highest is around 120ohm (6.3mm jack, high impedance and high gain). All XLR outs are 8-ohm only, you can only switch between balanced and unbalanced drive for those.

    2) 6.3mm (unbalanced) generally sounds more compact and 2D while 4-pin XLR sounds more expansive and 3D. Bass is more punchy and "dominant" with XLRs while its more calm, focused and "in the mix" with single ended. As a result of the more 3D presentation, mids get a tiny bit pushed back with 4-pin XLR out. 2x 3-pin XLR is even more expansive and separated but maybe a bit too much already, the sound is not as cohesive anymore.

    NOTE: There is a slight difference between XLRs in unbalanced and balanced mode, in a similar way like with the XLRs vs 6.3mm outs. Balanced is a bit more 3D and airy while unbalanced more 2D and less airy / warmer.

    To my ears, the differences are subtle but appreciated by me enough to have all headphones plugged via the 4-pin XLR (with the balanced drive on) which IMHO offers a nice middleground between the compactness of single ended and expansiveness of 2x 3-pin XLR.

    IMHO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  17. crenca

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    Thanks for the explanation, this makes a lot of sense even if in the main the market did not really go this way.

    Thanks for the feedback guys. I strain to hear the difference between bal vs. unbalanced (XLR so 9 ohms out on the Starlett to 80 ohm Utopia). Maybe, just maybe there is a small increase "control" (let's call it) with Utopia, that lends a an almost "glassy" texture to the sound. Not sure I like it, and I think it is in the placebo range so probably not even real ;). Will continue to listen...
     
  18. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Hello guys, I have spent some time reading this thread but unfortunately my command of English is not that good because I cannot find too many comparisons between Starlett and Stratus.

    Long story short I have a chance to purchase used Focal Utopia at good price and with my daughter getting older I no longer need to worry about owning a tube amp. I think based on my testing various gears mentioned in this forum, my sound preferences are a bit to the brighter side than the usual norm. For example I find the Verité and Gungnir Multibit A1 to sound a bit too warm and soft for me. Also worth to mention is I generally like a SS sound, I really like my AMB Labs Beta22 and SS Dynahi mainly for control in the bass area and dynamics / speed.

    So is the Stratus sound brighter and have more SS qualities than the Starlett? Unfortunately I don't have much experience with headphone tube amps... I heard a fully modified WA5 before but I didn't dare to mention to the owner it just sounded poor technically and way too warm. And also because of my location, I haven't seen DNA or Eddie Current amps before in our local audio community so this will be a blind buy.
     
  19. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I haven't heart the Starlett but would not call the Stratus bright and I would expect the DNA amps to have a similar tilt. It's not very warm either but not sure if it would be too warm for your preferences. I don't have a useful alternative recommendation, I tend to stay away from bright amps and for my taste that would make a Focal too harsh, sharp, and/or glaring. Even with the Stratus, depending on my mood, the Elex is "too much" at times. Given the price point and your taste, I would not recommend a blind buy.
     
  20. crenca

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    I suspect based on what you write here that the Starlett (which I own - Gung MB A2 in front of it) would be too warm for you, possibly even with the Focals, to say nothing of with the Verite or any other warm tilted HP. I have not heard any DNA farther up the chain but suspect they would probably would be as well, unless you custom ordered one with those uber expensive silver wound transformers.
     

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