General Speaker Advice and Recommendations

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by shotgunshane, Mar 7, 2017.

  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    Yes for v6 (Nearfield) and v8 (can use a tiny bit further back and go way lower) if you can get a sick deal and can tolerate hiss. Gibson blew them out in the EU and now in USA. Hopefully where you are too. They can’t sell them because they’re a bankrupt company. I have zero faith in them supporting their own products long term.
     
  2. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Off-topic and pissing into the wind, but this is one bit of (recent?) American English usage I just can't (won't) get used to!

    How many channels are you listening to through headphones. Two. It's all two-channel. It's called stereo. Just... headphones is headphones and speakers is speakers.

    /rant.
     
  3. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Your first 3 points of preference say 'stay away from aluminium tweeters'. The cheap ribbons are actually even worse.
    Get something with soft dome (silk, fabric).
    Your reference to the HD600 says get something that can do lively mids and high bass, this means forget bass extension for that money. Low mids and up there is no excuse for speakers, other than the ones with 8'' woofer 2-ways will be in trouble between 1 .. 3 kHz. 2-ways with 5'' woofer will lack the grunt even for male vocals, forget bass.
    @Psalmanazar told you the truth about actives: with your preferences in mind, you will not find the sound from active studio monitors, not for the money. Best sound for this money is diy speakers and used good amp (or again, diy).
    Gut feeling tells me that PSI, ATC or Quested would do it in active format, but $$$.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  4. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    Yes, the Vidar binding posts accept banana plugs.
     
  5. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    It might be a language limitation? The problem here is that you can't say "speaker system" because it's too vague. You have 2 channel, 2.1, 3, 3.1, 4, 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, 7.1, 7.2, who knows how many goes into Atmos, etc etc. We can't even say "stereo" because that word is conflated with the boomboxes from the 80's. So given no alternative, it remains as "2-channel" for a regular stereo speaker system, and "headphones" for headphones.
     
  6. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    This is the only justification that makes sense to me. Maybe America was ahead of the rest of the world with multi-channel suround-sound stuff, so needed to specify simple two channel.

    The rest of us do fine just saying "stereo."
     
  7. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Yes the only 8” actives I’ve heard without big midrange suckout are Yamaha HS8 and only great ones Quested H108 and V2108. Yamaha achieves that with a 1970s no-cone movement, polypropylene type woofer. Quested is a mid 80s technical miracle to get as big sound in a small cabinet as possible with a lot of detail. So super special Volt woofers. It’s About 200 Euros for stock BM228.8 and Quested are using a custom version of it with special doping so more $$ crossed over to a binned 1 1/8” Morel MDT30 / CAT 308 that’s about 80 USD. The more expensive MDT 33 / ET 338 don’t go as low and only the V2108 (from 2010) is silky smooth with the special amp and damping. And yes the morel tweeter is not the most transparent. So a ton of design and research goes into getting usable 8” woofer two ways and they’re still compromised vs a three way with a big woofer in many ways Except for that Volt driver destroys most dome mids.

    The driver cost means that diy in small quantities just isn’t worth it for a ton of speakers. That Volt woofer costs more than the entire bom of most active monitors. ATC is even higher for the SL drivers. Now consider that Neumann and Genelec and Kii are not even using good Chinese drivers. They’re using shitty poly Tympany or even Tympany knockoffs. The original JBL 305 is using the cheapest shit possible and the mk II is using the cheapest ferrodluid tweeter around. Cheap Adams are using the cheapest Chinesium amt possible and are worse than the Emotiva and Golden Ears. The more expensive Chinese oem drivers (Seen in comparably priced passive speakers and more expensive actives) and the standard Seas drivers Amphion and APS are using are infinitely better and it’s not surprising the speakers are much better and more detailed.

    Compare them to The JBL 708, which is very “hifi“ and “Dolby” sounding. 6.5” woofer to 1” dome is the standard for a reason. Or super warm KRK V8, which sounds totally different balance from the v6 or old school 6000. It goes from “warm monitor” to “big chewy warmth” and then you get the midrange black hole that is the Dynaudio BM15 and Genelec 1031 and the incredible boxiness of Neumann KH120.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 3, 2021
  8. Metro

    Metro Friend

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    There is history behind the term "two channel". I began to see it used by audiophiles and audio/video magazines in the 1990's, when home theater swept across consumer electronics. That was when everybody was converting their stereo to surround sound home theater, or to equipment to use for both music and video. Home theater electronics was dominating the market, and also equipment reviews in the press. Faced with this onslaught, audio traditionalists began using the term "two channel" to distinguish equipment meant primarily for music only, and usage of the term has stuck through the decades. BTW, headphone systems were very rare back then.
     
  9. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Yes, that makes sense, although I think the terminology could have been better. You could say that, as typical British snobs, we felt no need to rename our stereo on account of the growing number of home-cinema systems with various numbers of channels. Because hey, we were doing hifi, and they were not. Frankly, that was my attitude! :rolleyes:
    And, back in the day, headphones were always the secondary way of listening. To be used when one could not disturb others with the speakers. It actually came as a big surprise to me, after quite some time on headphone forums, to realise that so many members only used headphones, and did not use speakers at all!
     
  10. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    This is actually a serious question but feel free to laugh at me for asking it...

    Call me slow on the uptake, but until I saw the suggestion on @bxh 's FS ad for his speaker stands (free plug, thanks for the education) I'd never thought of using cat litter for added mass. Good dry sand and lead shot are heavier, sure, but more expensive and harder to source.

    So, I'm after reviews. Obviously unscented would be best and the stuff advertised as light weight would be less desirable, but are there any other things to consider? My stands are single steel tubes, uncoated on the inside - could there be corrosion issues with certain products?

    Experienced users of cat litter for its intended purpose please chime in here too - it's been over 30 years since I had a cat and he liked to go outside for privacy, so I'm completely ignorant of all its properties, not just the audio-related. Thanks in advance! :)
     
  11. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

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    I'm no chemist but I qualify as an experienced user of cat litter (I've been well trained).

    I wonder if the moisture-absorbing qualities of cat litter might make for an issue with rust once it gets saturated?

    If that's not an issue here is a kind of litter that seems to have fewer chemicals in it (or so the marketing claims). It's made from ground corn husks, if memory serves. It's not cheap (as cat litter goes) but it's fairly hefty, if less so than clay (I could still throw my back out lifting a big bag of it).
     
  12. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Thanks for the suggestion, I did see some of that today. Pretty low-density compared to the more conventional stuff though - and while saturation is interesting to consider, the volume & adsorption potential of the clay-based stuff (bentonite seems to be the main active component, and having been in that stuff up to my waist I know what it can do) means it should be fine for an extended period as long as nothing or nobody is regularly pissing into my speaker stands.

    Arm & Hammer Mult-Cat Unscented is currently looking like a winner.
     
  13. Zimmer266

    Zimmer266 Facebook Friend

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    I found myself staring at the wide selection of cat litters, and just couldn’t. I walked to another aisle and bought two ten pound bags of rice instead. It proved to be the right amount for a set of four pillar Skylans.
     
  14. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    :D

    Probably a good solution for 4 pillars of volume. My stands being single-pillar things of only about 2 litres capacity each, I'm trying to maximize the density/cost ratio. A 14 lb box of regular cat litter looks like it'd be about 4 litres.
     
  15. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    Be aware that rice can attract worms after a while. It may take a couple years but it depends on climate and I’m guessing Maine isn’t that different from Iowa in that regard. I had a couple of bags stashed for emergency and they were bad in 2-3 years
     
  16. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    If I say that mass is equal to weight, I'll have the primary-school teachers jump on me, let alone actual physicists. No, I don't have that school stuff in my head just now. Yes, I do know the two words are different. But, I do feel that weight/density/mass matters. And I suspect that cat litter is nowhere near as dense as sand.

    Whatever takes your fancy, sand, grit, gravel, pebbles, from the local building store: just get that. The harder it is to pick up a bag the better. If worried about moisture, dry it out, roasting tray by roasting tray, in the oven.

    And this is one of the main reasons that I like floorstanders. No stands. Just one piece of better-balanced furniture each speaker. I like the look, and I like that it is, even if only a bit, harder to knock over.
     
  17. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    Actually they might not be too far apart. If the sand were pure quartz, the grain density would be 2.65 g/cc. Other components could increase (calcite, dolomite, micas) or reduce (feldspar) that slightly; but then there's porosity to account for, and the relatively narrow grain size distribution of commercial dry sand would make that high (maybe exceeding 30%). The dry density of bentonite is 2.2-2.8 g/cc, and other components in cat litter include sand. From my limited experiences (vacation supervision for cat-slave friends), cat litter grain size range is fairly broad so porosity would be quite a bit lower. But enough geology.

    Yeah, damp construction sand is much cheaper and easier to source than the fancy dry stuff; might get stink-eye from the owner of the roasting trays though.

    Stability, indeed. The pandemic has meant Mrsdegraded's boisterous grandchildren haven't visited, and in my nightmares I do have such visions.
     
  18. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    Buy your own. Can't imagine that a couple of roasting trays would add much to the cost of a speaker project.

    I'm a cat slave, but detest litter trays. Only used for indoor kittens or a sick cat. I'm glad to say that it has been a while --- especially as my current youngest was born outside the house. The small amount I still have in stock doesn't seem very heavy.
     
  19. magicscreen

    magicscreen New

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  20. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    BWC speaker ?

    Slim tower speaker is mostly for aesthetics and space saving = wife acceptance.
    There are some sonic/acoustic benefits (better high-mids and treble dispersion --> better 3D imaging), however these hardly outweigh the missing real bass driver.

    If anything the slim box towers are going out of fashion. People are tired of these.
     

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