SBAF DAC Talk II

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maxx134, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Thanks for confirming my suspicions - probably not worth the hoops I'll have to jump through to try one.
     
  2. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    OK - so those of you who have seen my DAC reviews know that I'm DAC hunting for the Stellaris right now. I still have the Burl B2 and Holo May on my to try list. If there are any other DACs people really like with the Stellaris (or DNA amps as a whole) - please share.

    Only 2 requirements are 1) under $6k (new or used) and 2) must be equivalent to or better than Yggdrasil has been so far overall. I'm in no rush and can wait for a sale, used unit to appear, can even grab a unit overseas when travel starts up again, etc.
    -----------
    Otherwise, I have heard the following that I would consider to be in the ballpark of performance, in rough order of most to least favorite per synergies, preferences, etc. and a brief comment regarding why I haven't already bought said DAC
    Bricasti M3 - needs more texture
    Rockna Wavelight - needs more texture and sound is a little too glossy
    Sonnet Morpheus - bad PRaT, NOS sound too strong
    Sonic Frontiers DAC - too hard to find and I'm looking for something slightly more aggressive - it is very good with DNA anything though and I get why Donald uses this with his own amps.
    Metrum Pavane (I don't remember if it was L2 or L3) - nothing wrong actually, just nothing really stood out, I may actually need to revisit this one
    Soekris 2541 - not quite resolving enough to take advantage of Stellaris abilities
    Holo Spring (don't remember trim level) - slightly slow and a little soft-ish
    Various Schiit DACs - they're good, but I already have a Yggdrasil
    Chord Hugo TT2 - not bad, but price/performance ratio needs to be stronger IMO

    based only on conjecture - did not plug into Stellaris... but even if I did, based on memory, most these would be on the lower half of the list anyways:
    Crane Song Solaris - way too soft of a sound
    Aurender A10 - not quite resolving enough, nothing special about the sound with a Stellaris
    PS Audio something or another, Aurelic something or another - don't remember, but nothing stood out (not in a good way)
    Resonessence labs something or another - out of business I think (on a random note, at Audeze's HQ, they use one of the top of the line ones IIRC with Audeze the King amp - the best I've ever heard the LCD 2/3 and some other Audezes sound)
    Matrix XSP - timbre was a bit off, felt the same with a Starlett

    Convert 2 and various DENAFRIPS DACs based on feedback here and elsewhere are probably not for me
    --------
    mods, if this belongs in a diff thread, please move
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  3. m.i.c.k.e.y

    m.i.c.k.e.y Facebook Friend

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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  4. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    If rockna, go big or go home (i.e. wavedream). You try msb pedophilia discrete dac, or the briccy m1 yet? Also I like 2541 quite a bit more than Yggdrasil so ymmv with all this shit. Burl is fun. And vinyl is the best dac.
     
  5. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    What about tape? Tape > vinyl
     
  6. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    Haha well ladi f'ing da mr smarty pants. Getting source material sucks ballz even worse than vinyl though.

    Relatedly, never understood why torq played with dacs instead of live string quartets on his yacht.
     
  7. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Psalm, cassette or those big spools?

    The reason I ask is that my grandparents owned a mammoth Grundig tape recorder that stood vertically. It was hypnotic to see the spools turn (like a cinema projector).
     
  8. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    Per above and the little I heard with the MSB Discrete in an unfamiliar 2ch system - I don't think I'm going to like the MSB Discrete. Asked the above to make sure I triangulated at least somewhat correctly. It's also out of my price range.
    For the M1, the dealer I borrow the M3 from told me they slightly prefer the M3 anyways (they stocked M3 and I think M21, but purposely not the M1) and M1 is also out of my price range.
    2541 was actually really good, it went from "just listening for fun I don't need one -> whoa OK I guess I'm going to buy a cheap or used one later" but I just can't see it being my main Stellaris DAC.

    Will hopefully be able to borrow a B2 after New Year's.

    Looks like it's not out yet. Will also need to see if the HP amp on this is a "significant" portion of the cost or if it's more of a "for convenience" tack on that probably only raises unit cost by <$5-50 like on the 2541.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2020
  9. Raicorl

    Raicorl Acquaintance

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    Or you could just wait for something "better" AIO ( in term of streamer+dac) within your budget range.. while using your Yggdrasil or cheaper Soekris 2541.

    I do think a really good transport needs to be invested for $$$$s Dacs and pi2es/allo/pc usb solutions wont do them justice.

    But I really like the dac/speaker auditions with my friend tho. IMO its the most fun part in this hobby...as long as you can wait for the real deal stuffs.:headbang:
     
  10. m.i.c.k.e.y

    m.i.c.k.e.y Facebook Friend

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    Have it for 4 months already. Waiting for the HUB to be available. I'm using HP so no complaint on my end. Review of Sandu on Soundnews is spot on. LINK

    [​IMG]
     
  11. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    ^ Interesting. Thanks. Also, if you don't mind, where are you located (just the country is fine).

    Reviewer mentions he's listened to a lot of DACs recently. With that being said he doesn't have as many DAC reviews up and most of them are of DACs in the <$500 range or of stuff I've just haven't listened to before. This is fine on it's own, just making triangulation of his preferences, etc. harder for me.
     
  12. m.i.c.k.e.y

    m.i.c.k.e.y Facebook Friend

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    Here in Rome, Italy. Yeah his above $2K dacs reviewed is a Denafdrips Venus and Audi0-Gd R7, the rest are mid/lo-fi variants. And has a Matix Element X as reference. But his comments are spot on.

    There is the Holo May also you could put in your list.

    Ragarding Audiobyte, there is this series of comparo/demo in YT (well its YT take it a grain of salt).

    Link, Link, Link
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2020
  13. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Hi guys, I could use your advice a little bit. I have been looking for a multibit DAC around USD 1000 budget and I am now borrowing a Schiit Gungnir MB (I think it's A1 with the latest USB board) for the second time. After careful evaluation I think this DAC is not for me because the presentation is a bit too warm and forward especially in the midrange and I also prefer more air.

    So now I think I've narrowed down my choice to these two: either the Soekris DAC2541 or Sonic Frontiers SFD-2 MK1. These two are around the same price in where I live but unfortunately, they are impossible to audition so it will be a blind buy. I seem to prefer a smooth, detailed but neutral (so far the Schiit multibit DACs that I have tested sound very tasty but maybe not too neutral) sound presentation. Also if it helps my headphone Susvara are definitely a bit to the bright side.

    I wish I could be in the States where it's easier to test unusual gears. Here in Southeast Asia our choice is very limited.
     
  14. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    With that budget, you might want to look into a used Berkeley Reference 1.
     
  15. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    In the end I choose the SFD-2. I hope I am making the right choice.
     
  16. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    I just got the SFD-2 and listened for the first time. Once again I am really surprised with how different R2R DACs sound... the Sonic Frontiers make the Gungnir Multibit sound veiled and lacking dynamics.
     
  17. RedFuneral

    RedFuneral Facebook Friend

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    Are there any safe assumptions you can make about a DACs sub bass performance(detail & control) based on the technology used? I'm talking the 'rumble' frequencies where large drums & electronic instruments play, <80hz.

    I'm getting to the point where I can't remember the source on some things I take for granted. I feel like I read that multibits struggle with the extremes but it may well have been a comment from a rando.. or something I made up entirely.
     
  18. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    I may not be experience enough with multibit and R2R but from the equipments that I have tested I think it really depends on the individual DAC and we cannot easily make a generalisation.
     
  19. Ksorota

    Ksorota Friend

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    This seemed like the place for a DAC comparison, so here we go...

    Schiit Gungnir multibit A2 Unison vs. Chord Qutest

    TL:DR The Gungnir Multibit is definitely a fuller sound by way of a warmer tilt to the presentation. The Qutest just resolves more easily.

    I compared the Gungnir multibit with Unison against the Qutest a few weeks ago and have spend the last few weeks with my personal winner. The biggest surprise/non surprise was how tonality wise they are very close. The biggest difference between the two was instrument separation and clarity. On its own, I might not have noticed the background haze of the Gungnir Mmultibit, or the lack of micro detail in tracks (particularly in the melody part of songs). The Qutest plays each track with clarity and microdetail offered up without over accentuations of any one frequency. The Gungnir multibit contains all of the same information, and does contain the micro details but in a smoother overall way that forces you to look a little harder into the song to find it.

    Best example I can give, that really sealed it for me was in the NIN track Please. The song ends with Reznor repeating. "never be enough to fill me up". and nuance in the way he sings the line changes each time. The Gungnir did not seem to have the small inflection and emphasis changes that the Qutest was able to very naturally reproduce. It felt more realistic and immersive.

    Again on a NIN track, "into the void" at 4:27 a very deep bass note comes in, which is repeated until the end of the song. The first run through the song I didnt really notice it with the Gungnir, but on the Qutest it stood out as something "new" in the song. Listening again with the Gungnir I could hear the low bass notes, but they blended more with the rest of the song.

    One other track that was noticeable was the "Little Crimes" album by Mellisa Menago where the rain in the background came through with more definition. On some older DACs I have had (Airist R2R, Modi 2, to a lesser extend Bifrost MB) the rain just comes through as static or hiss, with the Qutest it is clear and welcome. The Gungnir resolved the rain easily as well, but works to smooth/blend it into the rest of the track.

    On its own, the Gungnir multibit would have been a winner and stuck with me. The weight to low end is very nice, and the overall smooth presentation is more concert like , concert like in the way that you go to have fun with friends and music together...hanging out and feeling the music.

    After the comparison, and focused more on how the songs are reproduced, and how the details were being presented, the Qutest was providing more "completeness" to the tracks. In a perfect world, I would have both...unfortunately it is not. I think the Qutest might be closer to the dual purpose DAC in that it can do the detail, but also wont punish you if the tracks are not recorded perfectly. It can play background music and not distract from other work/focus that I am concentrating on. And really, I just like it!

    One other note...The background on the Qutest is also a lot blacker/darker...the Gungnir has a slightly audible noise floor.

    I have read someone write that the Gungnir Multibit is better at Macrodynamics and the Qutest at Microdynamics. I believe this to be pretty accurate. My conclusion after a couple weeks listening to both is that the Qutest leans more towards clarity/emotion while the gungnir is more emotion/clarity. Prior to these two, I had the Ares II and In my memory I would put the Ares II as emotion///clarity but with a touch more smoothness... with lower amounts of detail. I have a feeling on a speaker setup that the differences might be larger.

    For reference...my chain is M1 Mac Mini > DAC > GSX mini > (HE6, HE5 Code LEX, HD6XX)
     
  20. Kolozub

    Kolozub New

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    I had Chord Qutest Pi2aes (powered by Allo Shanti + meanwell ) combo .
    My observations more or less agree with observations posted above.
    From a technical point of view chord qutest excels in separation and quiet background, but I can not get over the way this converter works with macro and micro dynamics. Compared to Schiit gungnir multibit A2 (Unison + allo usbridge) this dac sounds makrodynamically soft and muted . Whats left is calm and controlled presentation , but "uniform microdynamic shading"+"always in your face detailed detailing :D " gives me impression of artificially created sound played by Robocop band.
    Qutest has many virtues even compared to my Gungnir Multibit , but none of them ( blacker background ,...) are so important to me . Even when I finally found a good qutest synergy in my system and enjoyed the sound it produced, returning back to Gungnir Multibit was something special :)
    I am sorry for my english , but i hope this post is helpful

    DAC:Schit gungnir multibit A2
    AMP: Hegel H200
    Speakers: Infinity IRS Omega
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2021

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