LTS Headphones Project thread - Freely accessible modular headphone platforms

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Tomislav_L, Dec 3, 2020.

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If you're interested in this project, how would you most likely make use of it?

  1. I'd like to build my headphones from scratch, by manufacturing and sourcing all parts on my own.

    5 vote(s)
    6.3%
  2. I'd like to modify the current designs and then manufacture the modified parts on my own.

    10 vote(s)
    12.5%
  3. I'd like to build my headphones using a DIY kit that only contains passive 3D printed or CNC parts.

    11 vote(s)
    13.8%
  4. I'd like to build my headphones out of a DIY kit that already contains all required parts.

    48 vote(s)
    60.0%
  5. I'd like to have headphones custom-built for me.

    34 vote(s)
    42.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    Oh yea, while we're on the topic of controlling the amount of bass, it's probably a good place to introduce one of the changes between the prototypes shown before and the final designs currently, it's the removable filter frame plugs.

    They're 3D printed using MJF technology and TPU rubber material, which is another first case of this new technology used for headphones as far as I'm aware, and it's got quite a lot of potential for many other applications I'll introduce in the future.

    I've designed two ports on the removable filter frames to have these plugs attached to them. They click into their slots very nicely and securely. I've taken some time to fine tune the tolerances, and I've designed 4 little holes on the sides of the slots, with 4 little dimples sticking out on the sides of the plugs (can't see on pics), so they actually CLICK into place (you can hear the solid clicks individually which also lets you know they're in properly) and they seal very nicely since they're soft rubber (surface kinda feels like those rubber erasers for pencils, grippy and soft-ish). At the same time, the rubber is extremely tear resistant and durable.

    [​IMG]

    You can see for now there are 3 kinds of plugs, fully closed, a small port and a large port, and then the 4th option I guess is to not use a plug at all and leave the entire hole uncovered. And then in order to remove them, they're just popped out of their slots using some sharp tool or point of a small screw driver, perhaps you can see the little slots on the filter frames to enable a tool to be pushed in and pop the plugs out. It's a really elegant and simple to use way to subtly control the bottom end, without actually having to replace the entire filter frame or disassemble anything whenever just small changes are to be done. Not even ear pads need to be removed to do it. The filter frame itself can still obviously be removed and replaced, but now it's only necessary to do so for more extreme sound tuning changes or when replacing the entire driver for a different one.

    Below you can see their effects on the FR, with nothing else changed, just the plugs.
    [​IMG]

    Grey line is without both plugs, yellow line is with two large port plugs, orange is with two small port plugs, and red is with two fully sealed plugs. The idea is very simple, the more leakage there is (with larger holes), the less bottom end there is. I'm gonna design one more plug to go between the small port and the fully sealed ones to give an additional finer step between the two. Also, obviously two different plugs can be used in combinations, for example one large port plug and one small port plug, and that will put the FR in between again. So the steps that can be achieved are really, really subtle, which is the whole point of the solution and I'm really happy with how it turned out.
    There's a small change in the upper range as well, as you can see, but it's far more subtle and almost not noticeable audibly.

    Obviously the general FR still depends on the actual mesh attached to the 10 other ports on the filter frames, and that determines your starting point. This particular filter frame is tuned to be a bit bass lighter than I'd prefer by default, because I've used highly dense mesh to cover the front 2 ports and the 4 rear ones, while the rest is covered by medium density mesh. Ideally, instead I'd cover everything with high density mesh, and only have the front two ports in medium mesh. That way the FR would be such that using the small hole plugs would make the FR look kinda like the red line on the graph above, instead of the orange one, which would then leave the option of using the sealed plugs to even further increase the amount of bass, if you know what I'm trying to say. I want the "medium" plug to be the neutral setting, and then other plugs allow you to go one or two steps bass-lighter or bass-heavier from that. For my taste, the red FR setup from above is the ideal neutral point as it gives a very solid bass response with excellent extension and the sub bass energy that I want, but still keeps it super tight and clean.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 18, 2021
  2. 7seven

    7seven Acquaintance

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    Definitely will add the cups at some point, it might help add more depth to the imaging aswell which is more my preference, I have to tweak the model for using a hardwired cables instead of connectors.
    I wonder if it could even be worth having the cups done in CF plastic too or is it already overkill with normal plastic?
     
  3. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    I think CF would be overkill for the cups, and it would also be very expensive and would require additional post-processing as opposed to MJF PA12 which just looks great raw in black color, just like an injection molded piece almost. As I mentioned in the PDF somewhere I believe, the way the cup has been designed is that the walls of the cup are internally hollow between the structural bracing, so what I tried in certain cases is I filled those internal hollow sections of the cup walls with liquid glass, which is a type of really rigid resin, and once that dries and cures, it makes the cup far more rigid and stronger than if it was printed out of CFRP, but still, I don't think it made any significiant difference to the sound compared to just leaving the cup pieces as they were. So in my opinion, MJF PA12 is more than good enough for the cup itself. Now, if it was a closed back headphone, with a sealed cup, then it would be a different story, but the way it's entirely opened up and transparent now, it's really not worth going for more expensive materials. It's just that added little stiffness to the baffle once you tightly screw the 6 additional screws that's beneficial in this case.
     
  4. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    @Tomislav_L is the v1.0 of the V3 the pre-production model or did i read that wrong?
     
  5. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    The V3 v1.0 on the website right now is the pre-production headphone, yes. The one I'm finishing right now will be the final production version, outside it will look 95% the same (apart from having some CNC machined parts and different paint jobs), but internally a lot of changes were made to improve the performance, increase the stiffness of the assembly and ease of assembly, as well as to increase modularity and to enable the installation of a wider range of drivers compared to the v1.0. I'm actually just finishing up the V3, this week I'm ordering a last set of final prototype parts with latest (and hopefully final) design tweaks, just to double check everything is fine. I'll put up some pics of that in a week or two once I'm done assembling it. After that, I'll go into final decisions when it comes to materials I'll use for each of the components, I'm still debating between glass fiber reinforced PA and carbon reinforced PA for the V3 baffle, then figure out the pricing, and then the kits and finished headphones will be available for orders sometimes by the end of next month.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021
  6. Argopo

    Argopo Facebook Friend

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    Got delivery of my pair of V2:

    [​IMG]

    Fit and finish is no joke. The workmanship is beyond my expectations. Seriously, the attention to detail and craft of these headphones is striking. So thankful to Tomislav for making these for me.

    Currently listening to the V2 using a Questyle CMA400i at my workstation computer using Qobuz. Will try them out at the main rig later on in the week.
     
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  7. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    That looks very nice indeed, you've got more pictures?
     
  8. Argopo

    Argopo Facebook Friend

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    Yes, I'll post more pictures when I get a chance using better lighting conditions. Hopefully, by the weekend.
     
  9. Argopo

    Argopo Facebook Friend

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    Finally got some free time to take a few pictures:

    Hard case:
    [​IMG]

    Filters and plugs:
    [​IMG]

    Headphone cable with Neutrik SE plug and Hirose connectors:
    [​IMG]

    WyWires Platinum Balanced cable (comparison):
    [​IMG]

    I had told Tomislav that I was going to DIY a balanced cable. But, decided to instead order a cable from Alex at WyWires. I use the same Platinum cable with my HD800. So, comparisons between my HD800 and the LTS V2 should be more/less equal.

    Generic Chinese connectors on the WyWires cable vs. Hirose connectors on Tomislav's cable:
    [​IMG]

    The Hirose connectors in terms of feel and aesthetics are much better in use than the Chinese connectors used by Alex at WyWires.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have only been able to spend a few hours listening to the V2. In a short one-to-one comparison with my older LCD-X, I never realized how bad my Audeze headphone sounds: cupped hollow soundstage with distant vocals. I may need to send them back to Audeze to get the drivers + pads replaced. By contrast, the V2 sound balanced, open, detailed, but not offensively so, enough bass to be satisfying, with a wider soundstage.

    I have the various Sennheiser headphones to compare: HD650, HD600 and HD800. All in stock form, no tweaks, except for cables.

    So far, I'm very happy with these V2s.
     
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  10. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    I'm really glad you're liking these, and the more I look at this silver matte finish, the more I feel it may be my new favorite over the darker high gloss finishes I preferred in the past, also looks like a perfect fit on that headphone stand. ;)

    I've been building some with matte black post-processing in these past few weeks too, I'll put up a few pics in the next couple of days, I think they look nice as well, a bit more understated and stealthy.
     
  11. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Top-notch finish right there, props!
     
  12. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    The looks and the finish looks great indeed, from the headband to the cups, everything looks so well done.
    How's that V3 going @Tomislav_L ? Still aiming for the end of the month or will that suffer changes ( Corona set backs are more than expected for everything nowadays)?
     
  13. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    The V3 will release any day now, probably sometime next week when I find some time to make a post. But development is done, prototype built and finalized, and tuning (at least the baseline that I'd consider balanced) finished. I still have to take some more photos of individual parts.

    Here's the "unofficial" FR from one of the states of tuning, but probably the last one.
    [​IMG]

    It's kinda hard to illustrate the difference between the V2 and V3 on graphs alone, because they're quite similar in terms of the general sound balance by design, so their measurements are not that different, but it's the presentation that differs the most between them. The V3 has a much more angled driver at 18 degrees and it's considerably more offset towards the front of the baffle than on the V2, which ads the usual effects of angled drivers, like making the sound slightly more relaxed in the upper mids and making the soundstage larger, with a better sense of frontal projection. On the graphs you can see the area above 2k dips down a bit, otherwise the FR's are very similar.

    Another aspect that can't be shown on graphs is that the V3 sounds even cleaner and tighter than the V2, and that's caused by the more rigid and compact construction of the V3, it's just a more massive chunk of ear cup around the driver, and also obviously the back of the driver on the V3 shoots out of the ear cup, instead of into it, and those sound waves exiting the back of the driver never interact with the headphone again. I've also designed a sort of spider structure that's extremely rigid and supports the back of the driver when it's screwed into place. Subjectively, the sound is overall slightly more refined and cleaner because of that with all things being equal (like same materials, drivers, ear pads and cables, and the same headband assembly), with an even tighter and robust low end than on the V2, but it comes at the cost of more expensive and complex construction.

    All in all, it will be a similar enough sounding headphone to the V2 that I believe anyone who likes the V2 will also like the V3, but at the same time different enough in presentation to justify having its own spot in the model range, and in some ways superior enough to justify the slightly higher cost.
     
  14. spoony

    spoony Spooky

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    Hopefully these will make it to the loaner program. Perhaps @ChaChaRealSmooth could consider funding a build?
     
  15. 7seven

    7seven Acquaintance

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    Also looking forward to any designs/ideas for the HD800 driver
    ... contemplating selling the HD800 or keeping it to use the drivers in an improved LTA chassis
     
  16. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    What about bass though? The 800's has all the advantages that we know because of its angled drivers but this and the fact that the driver is quite a bit away from the listeners ears makes the lower register less prominent than it should he. I feel like they missed the sweet spot by 2-3mm.

    So I wonder if the presentation of the lower register between v2 and v3 is also impacted because of the "aggressive" driver angle.
     
  17. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    HD800's have the driver placed extremely far away from the ear, but that's not an issue here because the distance from ear on the V2 and V3 is the same despite the different angle. I have a modeled virtual ear that roughly represents the outer ear anatomy, so when I design a headphone, I can precisely tell what the distance between certain headphone elements to certain ear elements is. I use one point that represents the opening of the ear canal, and from that point to the center of the driver, the distance is the same on both the V2 and V3, +- 0.5mm. The result is that there's absolutely no issue with the bass as a result of this angle, in fact, the bass has an even slightly tighter impact on the V3.
     
  18. Tomislav_L

    Tomislav_L Almost "Made"

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    I do have some plans for the HD800 driver already in motion, now that I'm done with the V3 I'll have a bit more time to work on it as well. Played a bit with the general design ideas, however I'm not yet 100% sure whether to design a cup for replacement HD800 pads (like ones from Dekoni) or for round / oval pads, as I don't exactly know what people would prefer.
     
  19. Walderstorn

    Walderstorn Friend

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    I personally like the 800 cups so I would just design around it and keep the pads the same since I don't think that was ever a problem for kost, in terms of shape/size/cost/comfort.
     
  20. 7seven

    7seven Acquaintance

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    I really like HD800 pads but would probably prefer the round pads for this project , for cost and availability.
     

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