Schiit Bifrost 2

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by RobS, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

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    Great stream of consciousness @Bill-P

    I'm a little concerned on the brightness. So, it is neutral to you, but with tipped-up treble? How bright are we talking here? Pairing with SS amp could be troublesome if it is too much.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021
  2. Martigane

    Martigane Acquaintance

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    If that gives you some comparison point, I find BF2 a bit brighter (more like V-shaped) than modi3 and especially BF1, but indeed less sibilant/harsh at the same time.
    A surprising combinaison of criteria that usually go together.
     
  3. Bill-P

    Bill-P Level 42 Mad Wizard

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    Yeah, so as mentioned above, it is brighter. Or "more airy" to some, I guess. But it's not troublesome at all if your SS amp is anything like THX AAA 789. I found the 789 to be a decent pairing with BF2. But BF2 seems to scale a lot more with a better amp.
     
  4. Locman

    Locman New

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    Hi everyone!

    I am interested in the BF2! I read all 52 pages and curious why the sound of this Dac went from warm, smooth & dark (which I prefer) to fast forward to year 2021 posts it has a tipped up treble? Did Schiit change something? Thanks!
     
  5. EagleWings

    EagleWings Friend

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    It has both. It is warm in the bass and lower mids. And also warm due to the slightly smoother upper treble. But it does have some brightness and edginess in the lower treble. In some systems, depending on the amp and headphones/speakers, the lower treble sharpness may not be that apparent.
     
  6. Iron-Juice

    Iron-Juice New

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    As someone once said, “In broadcast. If timing is wrong, nothing will work”. Audio is a lot more sensitive to timing than video. A good oscillator is key to both analog black burst and IP PTP timing. It may play a less prominent role other than live production environment.

    Thanks @joenetic for pointing this out. I'm a little surprised that BF2 uses a unknown oscillator.
     
  7. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    What makes the NDK "unknown" to you? Plus there's no evidence that the Crystek necessarily performs "better" when you haven't considered anything else in the circuit.

    There also appears to be a significant cost differential between the two, enough that it could easily push it over their pricing breakpoint.
     
  8. Locman

    Locman New

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    Ok thanks EagleWings
     
  9. Iron-Juice

    Iron-Juice New

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    So you mean BF2 uses NDK? Sure that's a known brand. I was quoting joenetic's comment in below post.

    Sure different components have different synergies and that's why I appreciated joenetic's voluntary efforts to test things out and to share with us.
     
  10. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Oh sorry, I had misread your quote. I do not know the brand of oscillator used in the BF2. But still, the Crystek is still a rather expensive part and perhaps it pushes the BOM over their desired price point. There's also no guarantee that such a part necessarily performs better than others within the given circuit. There are plenty of boutique opamps out there that cost an order of magnitude more than what Schiit uses, but they've shown in blog posts in the past that they didn't actually perform any better.
     
  11. joenetic

    joenetic New

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    The stock oscillators in BF2 are not NDK, they are very big in size compare with NDK, I have no idea the brand from the marking on oscillators surface.

    Compare the phrase noise graphics you can find out my Crystek model is better than NDK audio grade oscillator but not very much.
     
  12. ohshitgorillas

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    I've been feeding my Bifrost 2 with a Pi2AES, as I suspect many here are doing. I was impressed with certain aspects of Unison USB, but like many others, found it a touch edgy and hard sounding on headphones. I've been running the Pi2AES through the BNC output, and using a DH Labs D-750 pure silver solid core coax cable (BNC - BNC with an RCA adapter on the DAC end) into the BF2 coax input.

    I recently snagged an Allo USBridge Signature because I wanted to free up the Pi2AES to be dedicated to my desktop/headphone DAC while the Bifrost 2 sits with my speakers. I also wanted to see what Unison could do with a really, really well made USB source and the USBridge Sig definitely fits the bill. I'm using an Audioquest Cinnamon USB cable that I snagged from eBay for $25.

    I've only had the unit on for a couple of days, but I have to say... holy f**k, the USBridge Sig > Unison combo sounds awesome. I haven't done a direct side-by-side comparison but I can tell you that my system sounds notably better. I'm not hearing any edginess or anything weird like that associated with Unison, but the DAC now sounds more.... whole? complete? correct? it's hard to put my finger on it, but things sound fuller and more well defined, cleaner, in sharper focus. imaging is significantly improved as notes and the space around them are more well defined. It is not necessarily painting with a finer brush, but more like clearing fog away or getting new prescription lenses. I am also hearing more of the R2R body/fullness/weight, which I didn't necessarily feel was lacking before but wasn't nearly as apparent from BF2 as with some other R2R DACs I've heard.

    I am a big fan so far and in spite of not having had the unit for very long, I would absolutely recommend the USBridge as a source for Unison USB (at least in the absence of BNC or AES inputs... so basically just for Bifrost 2). Once I've had the time to really do some side-by-side comparisons between the Pi2AES and xDuoo X10T II portable transport, I'll make a dedicated thread since I think it is definitely worth considering as a Unison USB source (I will also compare it to my analog rig, I have the feeling that the USBridge+Unison combo is going to be a serious challenger).

    edit: I should mention that this listening was done through speakers (Bifrost 2 > Saga OG w/ Sylvania 6SN7 > Aegir > Tekton Lore), not headphones.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
  13. HotRatSalad

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    Which psu for the USBridge ? I noticed they sell an upgraded $170 psu.
     
  14. ohshitgorillas

    ohshitgorillas Friend

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    I'm using an iFi iPower X, I paid $100 and swap it back and forth as needed between my Pi2AES and USBridge... will probably pick up a second in the future and/or DIY a 5V LPS
     
  15. sp33ls

    sp33ls Friend

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    Currently have my BF2 setup on my desktop system, and Yggdrasil GS for 2-channel.

    Using Pi2AES with SE output on Yggdrasil since it's going into my vintage Pioneer preamp. XLR from BF2 into Neurochrome HP-1.

    I'm wondering if I'd actually be better off having Yggdrasil perform headphone duties, and BF2 for speakers? Heresy III's are pretty revealing, but not as revealing as my Verites or even Z1R's.

    Wonder what others think.
     
  16. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    Only way you'll know its try. It might come down to things other than technicalities.
     
  17. haywood

    haywood Friend

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    X2. The swap might give better synergy. Yggdrasil GS is basically like Yggdrasil v1 tonally right? One of the things people complained about back in the day was its brightness and that might not be a great fit with your speakers. The bf2 is considered more dark / warm which might make your speaker setup more enjoyable for normal listening.
     
  18. sp33ls

    sp33ls Friend

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    Exactly. That thought ran across my mind (Yggdrasil V1 and H3 both having a tendency to be bright). Meanwhile, my collection of headphones tend to be a bit more warm.

    I'm scared that I like it more this way, I'll eventually end up picking up another Yggdrasil when V3 boards come out... This hobby can get so pricey lol.

    I'll give it a shot soon and report back.
     
  19. bboris77

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    Here is my updated impression of the Bifrost 2. I originally purchased the BF2 when it was launched but had to return it because one of the channels exhibited some very low level coil whine. Instead of opting for an exchange, I just got a refund. I regretted this decision for almost 2 years as I felt I had not given the BF2 a fair shot. The next thing that happened was the whole COVID mess, backorders etc. I waited until Schiit had some units in stock, and I jumped right on them last week. I got the BF2/ Jotunheim 2 combo. Happy to report that my new Bifrost 2 has no noise issues of any kind.

    I am evaluating the BF2 using my speakers setup through a Yamaha AS-501 amplifier connected via RCA output. My speakers are the ELAC DBR62. I compared the BF2 directly to the EL DAC II. Shockingly enough, the two units were level-matched within 0.1dB without having to use any manual attenuation.

    My original impression of the Bifrost 2 was that it was very hard to hear a difference between it and my Steinberg UR12 sigma-delta DAC, except when it came to cymbals and hi-hats. I am very happy to report that the new BF2 also exhibits the same ability to reproduce these types of sounds more realistically than any sigma-delta DAC I have ever used. The attack on the percussions just seems to sound a bit more natural on the Bifrost 2. I am assuming that the difference is due to the SuperMegaComboBurrito filter and its ability to deal with these types of transients in a different fashion to your typical D/S reconstruction filter.

    Other than that, it is VERY difficult to tell a difference between the Bifrost 2 and the EL DAC II. I am fairly sure that I would fail a typical blind test unless there was a very specific percussion-heavy track playing. Nevertheless, I am happy I got the Bifrost 2 and I will definitely be keeping it. It started me thinking about the usefulness (or the lack of) of a typical blind test in which we rapidly switch between two devices. I always thought that this was the best way to try and discern the differences between amps/DACs, but I am not convinced any longer. The issue is that our brain adapts so quickly to changes that it kind of glosses over subtle differences. On the other hand, these subtle differences do have a more profound effect when it comes to long-term listening experience. The sum of these subtle differences could explain why prolonged listening leads us to think of certain components as engaging vs boring, fatiguing vs relaxed and so on.

    With my objectivist hat on, I have to say that I would never call the Bifrost 2 warm in any shape or form. It is a DAC that does justice to the original recording and does not distort it in any way. It does appear to have an ability to reproduce transients, particularly higher frequency ones, in a more realistic fashion than a typical D/S DAC.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2021
  20. Erroneous

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    @sp33ls I've been in a similar situation. I run modified Klipsch Quartets in my 2-channel and they benefit from a warmer DAC. I have a neutral amp pushing them.

    I also run VC from a neutral/dry amp and had a Yggdrasil A1 (same bones as GS) and it was a great pairing. It's all about balance in the overall chain (to me, at least.)

    I'm with others here, I think you'll have better balance after the swap.
     
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