Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    This guy just shitted on Barefoots like he did ATCs because he sells Harman speakers. His reviews are ultimately reviews of his horrible living room, home office, and garage mixed with handwaving for whatever he sells or has a hookup on.

    He also finally acknowledged his Klippel setup has floor and ceiling issues.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  2. BarnBurner

    BarnBurner Acquaintance

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    The Topping Pre90 measures suspiciously like a reverse engineered LA4--none of these chi-fi outfits are innovators, just low-rent IP pirates--and he luuuuvvvs that about them.
     
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  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    What LA4? The Urei optical compressor with the distorted 1970s opamps? It’s that distorted and grungey?

    Oh the benchmark. Yes they do nothing but steal and muntz. Communist way. Cheaped out fiberboard cars, cheaped out nuclear reactors, cheaped out audio gear. They even put straw in the concrete.
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2021
  4. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    The Pre90 is quite literally a Topping A90 with more inputs and outputs and relay volume control though. Oh and much higher asking price of course ;)
     
  5. BarnBurner

    BarnBurner Acquaintance

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    Today Amir is trashing a Klipsch speaker he admits he completely botched the measurements for. Only one cult member dared raise a teeny tiny objection. Nobody else cares, it's Two Minutes Hate against Klipsch.
     
  6. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    About that $1000 offer that was made by ASR to @GoldenOne provided he was able to tell the Magnius apart from another amp in a blind test - it looks like the goalposts have been shifted, and it may not happen anymore. Amir is now proposing to record the output of two devices and post it for everyone to be able to do an A/B test online. This is obviously not the same test, and it is inherently flawed.

    It genuinely disappoints me that ASR backed away from this initiative as it would have been a great opportunity to explore this area in an objectivist-dominated forum where there are a lot of non-zealous objectivists as well. I think open-minded objectivists are sincerely interested in exploring this area with no prejudice. @GoldenOne also seemed genuinely open to being subjected to any kind of scrutiny and risk publicly failing this blind test even though he believed the differences in sound were fairly obvious.

    If this testing does not happen as a collaboration between @GoldenOne and ASR, I think that it should still take place independently as it is a really fascinating subject for a lot of people. It is not like the results of this test need an official approval from ASR to be considered valid and official.
     
  7. murray

    murray Friend

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    They will pick holes in anything. It’s time to reference the famous Monty Python “argument” sketch.
     
  8. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    No it isnt!
     
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  9. gepardcv

    gepardcv Almost "Made"

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    For the benefit of those of us who do not follow the discussion at ASR, how did it transition from ASR accusing GoldenOne of all kinds of bad faith in the MQA thread to a $1k challenge for telling amps apart? And was the protocol for this challenge being hashed out when the proposal to just post output files was made? And was it made because a clean, double-blind ABX test is a huge pain in the ass and requires specialized hardware, while an ABX between two digital files is simple to run in software (and useless)?

    Edit: And is the $1k to be contributed to ASR by the members, kinda like for that headphone he lost?
     
  10. schnesim

    schnesim New

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    Even if there are differences between files, I wouldn't be surprised if these are declared inaudible.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Would be interesting is if I recorded Magni Heresy and Magni 3+ output into the Motu Ultralite to follow up on my blind test: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/magni-3-heresy-and-3-blind-listening.8663/

    Actually, maybe Magnius vs. Heresy or another 110db+ SINAD amp like THX or Geshelli? This actually sounds like fun.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2021
  12. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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    Im also very disappointed that its suddenly gone downhill. It was looking really positive for a while.

    To give everyone a fairly brief background:

    - Amir took issue with my mqa video, and as part of the discussion, brought up my magnius review video. Effectively saying that everything in it was nonsense and that there was no objective evidence for any of it.

    - Amir then said he'd give $1000 to a charity of my choice if I could correctly identify any of the observations made in my video in a blind test.

    - I accepted this challenge and asked for input and feedback on how to conduct the test in a manner he'd be happy with. I thought it'd be very constructive. We get some good evidence about audibility one way or another, and hopefully some money goes to charity.

    - I did all I could to make it happen, a friend is sending me a magnius, I discussed and took criticism on how to do the test itself in a way that would be considered satisfactory, and I offered to let someone of Amir's choosing come and observe/verify the test in person. Also at amir's and some other members request I changed the devices that would be under comparison. (Amir wasn't happy with ahb2 because he'd not tested it with a headphone load, and he declined my offer to test holo may vs e30 because he'd not personally tested the May (though L7audiolab has measured it with an APx555), in the end it looked like we'd settled on magnius vs singxer SA-1)

    - The discussion continued for a while with some useful input from other members, and some...less than useful input or drama from others. But after some time, Amir suddenly made a post stating "OK, I am going to do a full reset on this plan!!!", and suddenly the entire thing shifted.

    - Amir said he'd watched the rest of my video and that he now disagreed with it even more. He would no longer accept a successful blind test between two "sonically transparent" amps as evidence that I was hearing what I was hearing in the video. And I'd instead need to prove one of the specific characteristics I mentioned.
    It's unclear to me why this is. Firstly, if they are "sonically transparent" but can be audibly discerned then as I mentioned previously the measurements are either insufficient or our interpretation of them/assumptions of audibility are wrong and need revisiting. If his assumption of 'transparency' is true then what specific characteristics I use to tell the devices apart won't matter as I won't be able to hear a difference anyway.
    If he'd prefer that instead of me saying "Amp A is the magnius", I say "Amp A is harsher" then I can do that.....but I'm not really sure how I can prove to him a specific subjective characteristic that he believes does not exist. And again, if his assumption that I'm speaking nonsense is correct then I wouldn't be able to pick it out anyway and so it really shouldn't matter.

    - I basically stopped responding once it became clear that the charity offer was off the table. But the thread has now moved toward saying that the test won't use the amps as the driving source at all! They're now wanting to play the amps into an ADC and then ABX using software on some other amp. This is not the test I agreed to, I've not compared amps under that methodology, and it's completely removing the interaction between the load and amp as a factor. A 50kohm impedance ADC is not similar to a 32 ohm reactive load.
    And we're also muddying the waters with the characteristics of a third amp used for the ABX, and the ADC itself.
    I do not believe this test is appropriate or will provide conclusive results because it is adding too many factors.
    I said that I could hear the difference between two amps, listening to them with my headphones connected directly. THAT is what should be tested.


    In any case, I'm very disappointed that Amir has reneged on the charity offer (or perhaps not reneged explicitly but shifted the goalposts far from the original test and what I claimed in the video.)
    But, I'm going to do this video anyway, I'll do it with the conditions that had been agreed upto the point of the sudden 180, and will post that to youtube. All adsense income will be given to the charity https://www.miracle-ear.com/miracle-ear-foundation and I'll be setting up a gofundme to try to raise the $1000 without ASR's involvement.
    I'll put $100 toward it myself to get things going.


    I'm actually pretty upset about the situation, this isn't about me, this isn't about Amir, I honestly could not care less what people think of me. I make videos because I enjoy it, if people like them that's great. If not, I'm sorry to hear that but I'm not going to attempt to change the minds of people who are unwilling to have their minds changed.
    This was about money going to charity, that's all. It's about a good cause, and so let's see if we can make that happen regardless of the situation.
     
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  13. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Yeah, Amir's proposed test is 100% pure Grade A bullshit, plain and simple.

    You want my advice? Walk away. Pretend like the last month or so of engaging with Amir never happened, and just walk away. Forget charity, forget making a point, forget everything about this sordid affair. Do not let him occupy another second of brain time, and make a video about something different you enjoy.
     
  14. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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    I think it's worthwhile to pursue the charity appeal. It's a good cause and for better or worse this 'drama' seems to have gotten some attention so it'd be nice to have some good come of it.

    The miracle ear foundation isn't available as a direct-donation on gofundme so I'll ask someone reputable to start the gofundme just to ensure there's no concern about the money going anywhere other than the intended charity.
     
  15. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Whether this is noble or foolish, I hope it works out.
     
  16. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    what is really sad is Amir's ego has spent 20 pages making GO out to be the devil, as if he's a horrible person who said horrible things and made very braggadocios and spiteful claims. GO is actually a moderate (if we want to consider Amir a radical) and apparently has the patience of a saint. for Amir to paint him in such a demonizing and denigrating manner (even referring to him rather condescendingly as a 'blogger', accusing or agreeing with accusations that GO is only in this for attention to his YT channel, etc.) only shows the weakness of his position.

    it is to the point where even moderates on his website, Forum Donors and regulars who are not completely drinking the koolaid are noticing how much of a farce the entire idea was from the beginning, and that $1,000 will not be going to the keeeeeeds in the orphanage, but instead paying for another imported Italian stone pizza oven.

    go on, do the test, you definitely don't need Amir's approval or his donation to the keeeeeds. he's already baited himself into alienating his moderate readership who do actually want experiments with a modicum of neutrality conducted.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    As someone with a negligible amount of knowledge about the topic (though your video on MQA does a great job of elucidating things), all I'll say is that for whatever this random person's opinion is worth the fact that you're still fighting for Amir to donate over a minute sliver of his donor/Microsoft/SMSL-Topping retirement fund to a good cause and the fact that he's acting like a rotten bitch about all this says more than enough. Good on you, GoldenOne, I hope he gets peer pressured into standing by his own words.
     
  18. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    Why? Why have you allowed Amir to deflect from the significant contribution you made to the understanding of the MQA BS clamis and technical deficiencies by accepting some bullshit, entirely unrelated, challenge?
     
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  19. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

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    Since now Amir is saying that he cannot trust that your experiment will not be rigged, what I would suggest is having one of the UK-based forum members witness it, even without the $1000 being on the table. If Amir agrees on the person and puts the money back on the table, fine.

    Ultimately, if you can recognize the Magnius apart from whichever other transparent amp is being tested 8/10 times or whatever is agreed upon, the conclusion is inevitable - something else is not being accounted for. For most of us, we are genuinely interested in what that x-factor may be. If you fail the test, then I go back to my transparent Atom DAC/AMP and stop wasting money on more expensive gear. ;)
     
  20. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    Let's all be honest and admit it was always about MQA, Amir, and who's right about SQ & measurements. If it's about blankets for orphans do the test the right way anyways here @ SBAF and you will get to $1k pretty easily I believe.
     
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