The All Purpose Advice Thread

Discussion in 'Advice Threads' started by purr1n, Sep 26, 2015.

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  1. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    So I'm not sure if this should be in All Purpose Advice, Deals, one of the Elex threads, or my own DIY thread where I have been detailing my re-entering of the hobby.

    In any case, I'm on the lookout for a new set of phones, and have been closely looking at the Focal line, if only because they seem to be driving the renaissance in high end dynamic phones over the last few years. I almost impulse bought the Clear when they were discounted to $1000, but decided that is a bit rich for my blood.

    But I note today that the price on the Elex is down to $600, which seems to be a screaming good deal. But without the benefit of listening to any new cans over the last 10 years, it's hard to know if these are the cans for me. But maybe select comparisons from my history might give enough background for my tastes....

    • Sennheiser HD650. Love it through the Crack, all warm and comfy. A little more detail and zing couldn't hurt. A bit sleepy and veiled through my M3.
    • Stax Lambda NB. I really enjoy these. Airy, crisp, pretty well balanced. I alternate between these and the HD650 at home, although I would probably listen to these more if the pads weren't gross pleather. A little more phat bass would be nice on occasion.
    • Audio Technica AD900. My first big boy headphones from almost 15 years ago. Extremely airy with gobsmacking soundstage, but not particularly resolving. I almost prefer these to the HD650 from the M3 because they are so much more lively, but they have a fair bit too much treble for me these days
    • Beyer DT1350. I love these, just great all round tone, but the comfort and closed nature means I don't ever just sit and listen to them.
    • Alessandro MS-1. Very engaging and fun for very short periods, but way too tizzy, metallic and fatiguing. Only phones I bought that I can genuinely say I didn't like. If the energy of the Elex is anything like this, hard pass.

    So, Elex at $600, yay or nay? Anything else I should be looking at in this price range?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
  2. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I’ve only heard the 650 from your list so it’s hard for me to know if the Elex will match your taste. I used to own the Elex and liked them, currently have the OG Clear which are also great. I find the Elex sharper, brighter, and more energetic than the 650.

    I will highlight some downsides, not to bash on the Elex but to help you determine if they would be a good match for you. They can be sharp or a little hot in the treble. I didn’t find this to be too much but they were definitely mood dependent for me, more so than the Clear. I struggle with insomnia which also makes me more sensitive to fatigue.

    The other main drawback for me was amp pairing can be picky. They are fantastic with some really good amps but boring with the budget stuff I tried. I think this applies to the whole Focal line from what I’ve seen.

    All that said I agree $600 is a good deal and worst case you can either return or resell them. I think they are a great intro to the Focal house sound and I highly recommend trying them. Focals are popular for a reason. Just be ready to either upgrade your amp and/or return/sell if they don’t fit your taste.
     
  3. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Thanks for the thoughtful response! I'm not surprised you haven't heard my other phones, they are all the mid fi hits from over a decade ago......

    The idea of a brighter and more energetic HD650 is really appealing, and is a consistent finding across many, many reviews and reports I have read. My only concern would be that the big dynamics of the Focal don't head too far towards the aggressive Grado sound, like the Alessandro I had.

    [EDIT] and I hope I'm not getting too blinkered on Focal. If there's anything else I should be more seriously considering from Audeze, ZMF, HiFiMan etc, I'm more than happy to hear suggestions.
     
  4. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    It comes down to taste and those are some good options to try (everything you listed not just Focal).

    Of the bunch HiFiman has been the most hit or miss with how I liked the tuning but they still make great options some really affordable with their Drop partnerships. Hopefully you can try some at meets as things open up. Of all listed, in my experience,
    the ZMF Atticus is the least amp picky but the tuning is more bassy fun which probably isn’t what you’re looking for.

    Generally ZMF and Audeze will be more laid back and I think they often complement Focals rather than replace them. I’m definitely not a one-headphone kinda person. :D
     
  5. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    @Beefy
    I can get you in touch with the manager from Advance Electronics, they are a Focal dealer and probably have the headphones available though I don't know if auditioning is allowed with the restrictions right now.

    Or less formally, I know a guy from headfi who has the Elear. He lent them to me a couple weeks ago when I was repairing some miscellaneous cables for him. I'm sure you could arrange for a listen.

    edit: or how about support a SBAF endeavour and try out one of the ETA headphones? an improved HD650 sound with more detail seems to be the generic impressions so far (I'm deliberately not reading too much into them in case my curiosity eventually has me bite but I want to go in with an untainted mindset)
     
  6. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    And if you like the Elear but want less bass, the Elex should be good.
     
  7. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    Well yeah, there's that too. I keep thinking two cheap phones vs one expensive one, to give me a broader taste of new gear. But I am certain my desire to tweak and play will rapidly decrease once I've actually bought something, so I just know I'll only use one set and the other will get unused. This will also be for my stack at work, and my desk is already a disaster.

    Their website only lists the Utopia in full size cans, which is way too rich for my blood. Creative Audio lists the Clear, but even if they were willing to audition, I'd feel bad about it because there is no way I am paying Canadian prices for a new Clear. Or maybe I would fall in love and buy a new Clear, which would result in insta-divorce.

    Used Clear or new Elex is probably as rich as I am willing to go right now.

    Shit, now that is interesting. I'd only need a day to compare with the HD650 and AD900 to know whether the house sound is up my alley.

    And conversely, if I find the Elex is too bright, Dekoni seem like they have a lot of pad options for boosting base and taming treble.
     
  8. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Just let me know and I'll get you in touch with Jim.
     
  9. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    We're building a house which means I get to design a bit of a home theatre type room. Any suggestions on keeping surround speakers from sticking out like a sore thumb? I'd be OK mounting bookshelves but the wifey nixed that (even though she says "that's your room, do what you want", for some reason she still gets veto power). I bought some PSB in-ceilings for cheap that I am planning to use in-wall for surrounds, but I'm curious if anyone has done anything creative to get good surround sound without uglifying the room. The room is basically U-shaped with the TV at the bottom. The in-walls would go in the walls on either side near the top of the U.

    I will have another pair of the same in-ceiling speakers, actually in the ceiling, for Atmos, so I don't want to put the surrounds in the ceiling.
     
  10. Armaegis

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    @jnak00

    You could do the unheard of option and actually place a bookshelf speaker into a bookshelf... :eek:
     
  11. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    If you're building the house go with in walls at the suggested Atmos locations. If a grill or fabric directly on the wall is too ugly then you are SOL.

    When I built my room I wasn't able to install in-walls at the exact locations I wanted & commercial book shelf surround speakers would stick out too far into the room, not to mention looking extremely ugly to me. I built simple cases out of 2x4s for in-wall speakers and mounted them on the wall. These stick out just under 4 inches (including the grill) and can be painted any color you want. Since they're designed for flush mounting already they sound great.

    [​IMG]

    I would not recommend in-ceiling speakers for use in the walls. If they're shallow enough to fit in the 4 inch cavity they probably have shitty bass response. In walls seem like a lot of work just to get crappy sound.

    And please dont use a bookshelf speaker in a book shelf. :(
     
  12. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    What about speakers designed to be wall mounted?
    https://emotiva.com/collections/loudspeakers/products/airmotiv-a1
    https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation
    Diysoundgroup has a number of options, but they have had stock issues for well over a year now: https://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speaker-kits.html
     
  13. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    I did consider that too, but no bookshelves or bookshelf speakers allowed

    That box is interesting - is it sealed in the back? How's the sound out of them?

    The speakers I bought are PSB CW50Rs. The store I bought them from labelled them as in-ceiling but PSB calls them in-walls, so I figured they were OK to use in-wall. They were dirt cheap because they are discontinued. I wouldn't be surprised if bass response is weaker, but I'm thinking bass response out of surrounds isn't as critical? I do have a sub and might add another if room/budget allows.
     
  14. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    In my recent experience, modern mixes are leaning on the surround channels more and more for music in the soundtrack. You want at least some competent speakers for the side/rears if you want full sound. I had to update my rear channels to accommodate for this discovery.
     
  15. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Those speakers are Triad 4 inch in-walls https://triadspeakers.com/products/everywhere-audio/inwall/iw-silver4-sat/
    They're closed back already, the box you see is just a frame of 2x4s, cut down slightly & with a rounded edge. The boxes were meant to be temporary until I could get some 'nice' wood but once they were up I've never bothered to change them. Since the speaker grills are paintable you could make them into any color.

    I planned to use the speakers in wall but there's pipe and double-studs for window headers where I wanted them. If I had known I probably would have gone with the Triad on-wall option: https://triadspeakers.com/products/home-cinema/onwall/ow-silver-surround/

    If you're interested Triads come up on ebay all the time, such as https://www.ebay.com/itm/154491015318?hash=item23f861d096:g:SvYAAOSwV0hgxS-5

    I am very satisfied with the performance of these BTW

    EDIT: Updated the speaker link
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  16. ogodei

    ogodei MOT: Austin AudioWorks

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    Dolby specifies surrounds to be full range down to 40Hz, practically I believe mine are cut off around 90Hz.

    With surrounds & theater I really think just make it as good as you feel you need and can afford to. Obviously you cant put full rangers everywhere.

    That said, nice bass in the surrounds is great and you definitely need more subs. ;)

    EDIT: The specs on the speakers you purchased don't look bad, they are open backs so performance may vary with how much insulation and space you get behind them.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  17. JackDaniels

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    Looking for amplifier to the Sennheiser HD6xx that will be an upgrade over the DIY KSA-5. Budget is up to $1000.

    Currently considering:
    1.Bryston BHA-1
    2.Dynahi
    3.Schiit jotunheim 2

    Which amplifier would you recommend?
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Well... I'm talking actual book sized bookshelf speakers lol. I've had little 3" or 4" sealed boxes that have performed well enough, or a front ported speaker works too. Just don't expect 40Hz from the little drivers.
     
  19. Metro

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    Many speaker manufacturers have in-wall and low profile on-wall models. You have a wide variety of choices: Linn, Dynaudio, Elac, Dali, KEF, etc. (even Magnepan). https://www.google.com/search?q=audiophile+wall+speakers

    Sonos and Ikea just announced this: https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/15/22534768/ikea-sonos-symfonisk-picture-frame-speaker-announced
     
  20. jnak00

    jnak00 Friend

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    Thanks for the suggestions. Since I already have in wall speakers I will likely just use those. I forgot to mention, my front and centre speakers are PSB so I think I should keep the surrounds in the same family.

    The upstairs setup is Sonos, but I won’t be using those picture frames. Neat idea but not for me.
     
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