The vintage Ortho thread

YHD-1 definitely sounds better with thinner pads. Voiceyjoy pads in any configuration has sounded dubious in that 2-3kHz area, and afterwards always felt some ear fatigue after a long session.

I put thin leather pads on there which does crater the 2kHz peakage but also all of the treble.

Somewhere in the middle is what Ive tried to find. So from here would want to go to even less porous foam pads but not too far (like closed cell foam ).

So Ive tried custom 2lb density foam pads, and this Voicejoy pad is denser than that. I ran out of 6lb density foam (used remainder to make keyboard wrist pad) but that would be denser than Voicejoy so Ill order some to try.

After that point Id be inclined to use equalizer or sell. Schiit Lokius would be a cure all solution and save myself a lot of time from modding every thing. I know you @dBel84 and @rhythmdevils were on Loki+ and Lokius loaner tours. Recommend that over much modding trial and error? Or am I late to the party having by not using parametric digital eq?

 

I think the goal is to mod them to sound good without EQ. That's what I try to do. But I'm kind of a purist. Nothing wrong with EQ. I'd be interested in your YHD-1 if you sell.

 

^ Fostex T30 driver in Hifiman 400s (focus-a pads) enclosure. The driver I think loses some bass extension due to the HFM pads having much larger ear openings. I'll try some lambskin pads with smaller ear openings later.

v I haven't used T30 in awhile until just this morning. As you can see bass is too light compared to what I've grown accustom to. The Nighthawk is u-shaped and a reverberator. TRX00 with TH500RP cups is preferred but is a step behind the other two in bass microdynamics / texture due to the open cups lack of damping (and some driver ability), I could address TRX00 bass looseness with some damping but the tone is nice and don't really care to fudge with... Maybe later after I get a Lokius. I'm hoping ETA Supra-G to be best of all worlds (tone + resolve + dynamics).



RP18 kapton mod got delayed because I used it's transplant host for a BL30 mod. So, need to buy another HFM 4XX to salvage parts from (400s enclosure a little clampy / uncomfortable for me). Would send RP18 to @purr1n in stock enclosure if he doesn't care (headband on small side unfortunately). I'll take measurements with various pads later. Lost interest in RP18 because it didn't sound distinctly better than T30 in any specific way outside of larger stage due to driver size increase. Maybe has potential to be better but I didn't get that immediate feeling. Needs mods then comparison but am in no hurry atm sorry. I'll order a 4XX enclosure after I sell off my duplicate Nighthawk.

edit: Just ordered a parts HE-X4 so RP18 transplant moving forward.

 

^ Accessory House lambskin pads.

Definitely a little more weight and warmth. Didn't want to call HFM focus-a pads bright and went with just "light" instead. These fix the light bit of leanness and brightness. Weightiness is that last bit of defined and impactful sub bass. HFM focus-a pads were a disappointment.

These HFM measurements don't really improve on stock T30 enclosure measurements but the comfort increase is massive and these are much more open physically so that has to accomplish something.

I realized the HFM focus-a T30 probably measured similar to 400s or 400se with focus-a pads, but the Fostex T30 driver doesnt have any of the graininess or greyness.

That 5kHz peak with AHl pads probably hints at ringing but doesn't seem to be an issue. 5kHz peaks I've been desensitized to by years of Porta Pro and Grado.

 

And witness the cheapest pads I own in house Defean velour in 100mm sound and measure the best.

 

^ I had to tape a grill edge down because one of the tabs broke. I have spare grills so will replace later.

 

Was curious about getting more power into an ortho(HP3). Is it possible to modify the cable on lets say the HP3 to have a 4 pin xlr? While physically possible, is it advisable to do so? Someone told me to keep both the cups grounded, but they couldn't recall as to why.

 

I don't know about cables. Paging @dBel84 .

 

anything is possible as you say. it all depends on what you wish to achieve - I have SE amps with massive capacity so power is not an issue with the TRS plug but if you had a balanced amp that you wanted to run the HP3 on, then I would suggest modifying it for dual entry cable - this is a little tricky as you need to release the cups and flip them through 180 before fixing them again without destroying the tab that prevents the cups from spinning in the first place. ( Or find a thin quadcore cable and do some creative splicing )

I have never found the need for more power on mine . Finding a YH2/HP2 would be easier to mod in this manner.

 

Got two HP3s, both dual entry. Just to switch plug. I use mini-xlr for all my diy amps, nice and flexible with a trs adapter for single end amps.





Agree with Don, power is not an issue with single end (my M3 and X-Can V3 got plenty of power) but there is, I think, something a little special with balanced.

 

@mdr30
What the heck amplifier is that?? Googling "scaniavox" doesn't turn up anything except vintage radios.

 

Oh, didn't want to mislead anyone. That is indeed a nice old badge, from Swedish radio manufacturer Scaniavox (latin for "the voice of Skåne", the southern part of Sweden). Suited the retro look I liked for this amp. The volume knob is also from an old tube radio. If anyone's interested I'll tell about the power switch.

It's a balanced Gilmore SuSy Dynalo, diy. Hard to beat amp. THAT340 replaced by JFETs since then.



Here on top of an M3.

 

Took a break from vintage ortho and forgot what I was missing. Rich and sweet while still sounding fast and detailed is how I’d describe.

Before transplanting driver to HFM HE-4X enclosure I wanted to have a listen. RP18 enclosure is much nicer than T30 but unfortunately for me the headband is on small side. May try using stock enclosure and just replacing headband with HFM.

 

Using Defean "velour" pads in 100mm. I believe the pads are actually pleather wrapped in velour, so strong seal. Not going to mod these much beyond pad rolling since I'm still likely to do a driver transplant mod. Internal mods are basic: foam, felt, damplifier pro.

 

I defer to the high council of ortho wizards, are there any straight upgrades to Yamaha HP1s? I like the tone and immediacy.

sansui SS-100? other Foster cans?

RD tells me modded LCD-X 2021, I believe it will be a step up in technicalities but a step back in vintage liveliness.

 

You’re in luck, there are three Sansui SS100 on the bay right now. The cheapest one is $500 but has some cracks in the frame so would need bandaging. The others are in the $1k+ range. Crazy money but SS100 and T50 have sold in that range recently unfortunately.

Legend @takato14 says top tier vintage orthos are still ahead of modern planar in sound and design (he said this to me just yesterday and made comparisons to Audeze LCD2C).

I do not know vintage orthos place in planar heirarchy. Ive not heard a totl Audeze or Hifiman in about a decade. I do not understand how a new Audeze LCD-R could not beat a 40-50 year old planar.

Upgrade to HP1? I guess HP-1 aniso. I prefered the smaller HP2 due to kinder treble (at cost of bass due to smaller driver). Fostex T10 imo is the best outside of the big rare stuff. T10 is still uncommon but there have been some on eBay lately for around $100. Warning: small headband, particularly uncomfortable vs the particulary comfortable Yamahas.

 

I am coming around to the idea that ortho headphones may be better for long-term listening, i.e. the consumption of consecutive albums, than most dynamics. the problem is that I have heard exactly one ortho that doesn't suck which is the HP1.

I have no faith in modern planars except for this Snorry guy from Russia who has patented a new type of diaphragm and is working on a new flagship for next year using it.

I demoed LCD3 and LCD2C using my own equipment at a local dealer. terrible would be an understatement. dull and fell apart at high volumes. Hifiman is chi-fi and has no soul.

I will watch the cheap SS100 auction but I think it will end near $1k anyway. I'll look out for a T10.

 

I have reservations in praising my own modded orthos, but the LCD-X has more potential than any vintage ortho and can have very similar tone. It's much better than the LCD-2 or 2C.

I haven't gotten the FR perfect for me with my mod yet ,but it's very close and very good. It's really like a much better Yamaha in every way.

I would avoid the SS-100, it is very expensive because it is a collectors item because of the looks. All the die hard orrtho heads I know used to say they sound inferior to the RP-18 and should just be avoided unless you want to pay for the looks. But honestly, once you adhere real earpads onto the SS-100 they're not even going to look anything special. Don't waste the 800 or more they sell for.

Also if you buy vintage orthos, you'll have to learn how to mod them. It takes years of tinkering to figure out how to get the most out of them. It's fun if you are into it, but don't spend a bunch of money on vintage orthos thinking they will just sound good stock. They all sound like shit. You are much better off with an LCD-2 Classic than any stock vintage ortho. Except for maybe the TDS-15, that one sounds pretty good stock and is well damped. But it doesn't have extension all the way on both ends and isn't perfect. Also very rare, but not that expensive at about 150 usually. Still, the LCD-X and LCD-R have much more potential.

 

You’ve a lot of great gear so I am surprised to hear you say that you liked your HP-1 so much. Stock they have good microdynamics and tone but their macrodynamics must pale vs your TH900 since that is how I feel even in comparison to the lower tier THX00. With vintage ortho an increase in dynamics correlated with driver diameter increase. The biggest planar drivers I think belong to the modern stuff, so Im guessing an Abyss would pummel an RP18 in terms of dynamics which for me is a big issue for a good all rounder headphone. Id love to have a Stax in my collection but not at that cost. It would have to be a good all rounder because it would eat up a bunch of my budget.

RE: Non-fatiguing. Depends how sensitive you are to the treble ringing. Yamahas are untensioned which is supposed to mean less ringing, but I didnt find that to be the case. Modern T50RP I read is also untensioned but I also find those fatiguing. Well, I only find the Yams and T50RP fatiguing the more “damping” applied via mods. I asked @takato14 how this is and he kindly tried to give me a simple physics lesson which went over my dumb head and am still confused. For whatever reason they are not free of fatigue ime.

And I also warn against expensive vintage ortho. $500-1000 bucks for a 40year old headphone is a gamble. Seller might think its in perfect working condition but do they really know? Try a crude but effective Verum new with warranty for $350 from TTVJ (thats my next buy most likely). My two recently acquired NAD RP18 came with deformed and dented membranes though they were described by a member I trust as being in good condition (aside from a few aesthetic flaws).

Too bad your experience with the LCD2C was a bust as that was something I was looking forward to trying in the future.

 

Not all the vintage ortho heads.
https://www.changstar.com/www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,1821.0.html
@takato14 and @GREQ prefer the mylar versions of T50. Kapton membranes are tighter strung which means more ringing. Fostex T30 (like SS100) is mylar and does have kinder treble than RP18 kapton.

It could take years tinkering to figure out how to mod OR you might just get lucky. Worth the try imo! Modding vintage ortho for the most part is just like modding any headphone. So you can get most of the potential with basic mods, but you may not get all the potential like with @rhythmdevils mods supposedly. Its suspicious because unfortunately the highest member of the vintage ortho wizard council has jumped to Audeze’s camp. Sarumon has joined Sauron.