Vali 2+ Tube Rolling (Measurements)

Yes, I have your address. The tubes will be sent to you along with the SW51 next week.

 

Fun topic.

For what it is worth, PCX sometimes has Reflektor 6H23N-EB NOS available. At present, they have matched pairs for $99.95 which isn't $100 each, but isn't a few bucks each either. At least PCX screens and matches them.

I wonder if the reason tubes seem equipment specific depends on how much gain they contribute to the circuit? For example, the 6H23N-EB tubes sound wonderful in the SFD-1 where they are in a buffer circuit that I assume is low gain. The same tubes in a phono pre where they are used in high gain are nothing special. I assume the Vali 2+ is a high gain application as well. I have no idea how to measure

 

You can get Reflector 6H23N's on the bay for under $20 including shipping. Even cheaper for the Voshod 6H1N, and I can't tell the difference between either one of these in the Vali 2, and likely one of the better tubes I have tried. No need to pay crazy prices, or match pairs since the Vali 2 only uses one tube.

I just purchased four Voshod 6H1N's for $11 including shipping. That is $2.75 a tube delivered to my house. Even Jason said that he would put 6H1N's in if they did not get that hot. The 6BZ7's run cooler and less of a chance for toob noob's to get burnt fingers (basically). But I think the 6H1N (or the 6H23N) should be the stock tube in the Vali 2+.

 

I agree that the Voskhod rocket is the best tube. I also like the crappy and not-highly-regarded GE 6CG7 (not the dual labeled 6FQ7 without the shield). It has more air than the Voskhod and is a little less aggressive overall. It's a touch leaner as well, but it sounds very well composed from top to bottom and really has no weaknesses. I appreciate that it also gives the proper and realistic "thwap" of snare drums, which 6922s in the Vali 2+ can make a bit too aggressive, and the 6N1P can make a touch too organic and sweet.

 

Six-seven years ago I went trough a whole lot of tubes for my hybrid amp to find out if they made any difference. They did. Many were very fine, including Siemens, Mullard, Telefunken (E88CC) and matched Reflektor 6N23P. But I ended up with Nevz (Novosibirsk!) 6N1P gold pin and gold grid (according to seller) from 1990, bought on a whim.



They're still playing in my X-Can V3.



Not a Vali, but similar with tube driver stage and output BJTs. You can get them cheaply and in my ears they're one step above the others in this configuration. Also got a few pairs of Voshkod 6N1P gold pin for back-up, almost the same tube.



I'm sure these look familiar to Mr Zampotech.

 

I am very familiar with these tubes. But I confess, I have never seen gilded pins on the base tubes. Neither in the military, nor in the aerospace versions, nor in the navy. The gilding was probably done by a separate firm.

in your photo there is a variant of the tube "high reliability, vibration-resistant, with particularly stable parameters"

 

The price of the Rocket tubes depends on the year.

 

Ok, I alluded to this in earlier post, and I may regret this for driving up prices and limiting availability, but it needs to be said.

Awhile back I picked up a couple of RFT made ECC84's to use in the ZDT Jr. They sounded quite refined. They did not quite have the authority and weight of the Mullard ECC89's, but you can tell they had quite the finesse.

Fast forward to when one of them I had stopped working, and still had this one laying around after selling the ZDT Jr. So I picked up a ECC84 to 6DJ8 (or ECC89 -> ECC88) adapter for the Vali 2+. Now, many characteristics are the same, but the pinout is much different. Note, you can also use ECC89's and 6CW7's with this adapter.

Anyway, it turns out much of that finesse showed up in the Vali 2+ in droves. Plus, it had body and definition, something that was kind of lacking on the ZDT Jr. The clarity, space, and details is downright amazing with this tube. Basically, it is bold and quick, yet also still airy and clean.

I know RFT made some amazing ECC83's (12AX7's) that are highly sought after for guitar tube amps. Do a quick search, and you will see the crazy prices. Now, from the same factory, here is the lesser known ECC84, that was made for radio FM reception, that can be had for less than $10 including shipping. And it is downright short of amazing in the Vali 2+. Take that back, it is amazing! It is now my main tube for the Vali 2+.

 

@Azimuth Turned me on to this tube and I can confirm everything he's saying, this is a truly impressive combo and makes the Vali 2+ an even more stupendous value. It's now my main tube in the Vali 2+.

 

Mind sharing which adapter you purchased? Looks like it's tall enough that I can still get the adapter out w/o too much hassle if needed, etc. Also, is that just a standard Viton O-ring on the outside of the tube?

 

You are not the first person to ask and probably not the last. Below is the eBay link to the adapter I purchased, but no guarantees if the link does not work 6 months to a year from now. Basically search for ECC84 or 6CW7 or ECC89 to ECC88 or 6922 or 6DJ8. eg "ECC89 to 6Dj8" or "ECC84 to 6922"...you get the idea.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/202978058338

 

Way late back to the party here after having to go a couple of rounds with bad tube adapters and real-life things, but I was finally able to put some time to listen to these ECC84s in my Vali 2+. The batch I bought had three tubes; two of which have the same printed lot number. I have no idea if they're matched, but I've set those two aside after basic testing for potential future use as a pair.

For comparison, my current "everyday tube" for the Vali is a Westinghouse 6BZ7 from the mid-1960s. Nothing magical about it -- just a good luck pull out of a lot I bought on the Bay. To me, this specific 6BZ7 sounds just a little better overall than the EH 6922 I had in before, and for its price I was quite content to run it for all it had left.

The ECC84 borrows from the best of both of these. Detail that I'd find in the 6922, but without its brittle highs; overall bass performance as I would find in the 6BZ7, but without its bloat on the bottom. Admittedly, noise is very dependent on a specific tube most of the time, but these ECC84s had low noise like I have in my lucky 6BZ7, but without the clinical feel I sometimes pick up on the 6922 (almost as if it's too clean for a tube... somehow).

At the risk of blasphemy, I'm still not the biggest fan of high impedance cans with the Vali, even with the ECC84. It works well enough, and the sound is fine, but it just feels like the Vali has to huff and puff to make 300+-ohm headphones really sing. All things being equal I'd turn back to the Asgard 3 for those. But as always, your mileage may vary -- some people really love their HD650s with the Vali, and the ECC84 is quite good with this combo.

To parrot those above me: if you can find an ECC84 and an adapter for a reasonable amount of money, it punches significantly above its price class, figuratively and literally. Thanks, @Azimuth for shining a light on these. The single remainder of this batch will take over permanent duty as my main tube in the Vali.

 

I've put in an order for a Vali 2+. I had a look on eBay and found RFT ECC84s from Bulgaria. I bought 16 unmatched NOS tubes for $5 each shipped and taxed. I won't ever use that many, but after reading this thread, I figured I'd grab them all for SBAF. I will post a For Sale thread as soon as I have an average price to ship.

Edit to add: I won't have them in hand until mid-April
Friends in CONUS only for now

 

You know those tubes don't have the correct pinout for Vali 2+, right?

 

Yes, they need an adapter, but doggone it if they don't sound awesome (if you get a good one).

Thanks for doing this, but make sure you get an adapter and test them first.

I recently received a few from the same Bulgarian seller on ebay. I got three of them, and two had ringing, and one was slightly microphonic. They sound the same, but have those issue. I sent the one slightly microphonic one to @jexby since he had issues with the batch he received when in high gain. I believe some of these sellers are selling whatever batch tubes they have and really have no way of testing. It is such an oddball tube that most tube boutique places that would test and such don't even carry them.

I know I started this mess and I feel slightly responsible because of poor quality tube issues. I think mostly because they are lying about the "NOS", or maybe getting down to the not as good "OS" ones.

PS - If we ever need anymore from Bulgaria, I might have a hookup. I am friends with a real US diplomat who travels there regularly, so he said he is willing to pickup anything we need. He knows it takes forever to get items shipped out of that country.

 

Good point, I will try them all to see what I've got. Ordered the same adapter from your eBay link

 

I’ll gladly buy a few of those off you after testing. I ordered some myself but the post office screwed it up and lost the package.

 

Tube noob needs heIp: I have bought a Sovtek 6H1N before there aren't any left. Looks like this needs an adaptor for the Vali2+. Could somebody point me to a suitable adaptor?

I have also bought a Tungsram 6BZ7. This fits, but it is glowing seriously less than the stock tube. Bass is pretty limb. Is that expected behaviour? It has an intimate quality though that the stock tube does not have.

Thanks for support!