Schiit Yggdrasil Less is More (and MIL and OG) Impressions + Measurements

Thanks to Schiit for letting me know FedEx was backed up here in Seattle. LiM finally was delivered (it was two weeks of waiting) and I've had it baking in for three or four days straight now.

Coming from the A2 in a speaker system (briefly: 14'x24' w/carpets, drapes, bass trap, and Monitor Audio Silver 500 speakers, Naim and Pathos), I hate to say I am less impressed with the more that I hoped to be impressed by. This is my contradictory way of saying I haven't much new to add here except that in a way, this is not a different flavor of A2, it sounds to me to be a different DAC altogether.

Using a Modius in my system while I've waited (wow that thing is great!), I suppose LiM has the Schiit sound, except that vs. A2, the LiM bass has as others have reported, more texture and more control by way of being more restrained and in better proportion to the rest of the frequency spectrum. Bass is no longer crowding the low mids and robbing them of their nuance–very happy about this!

The mids still have their fullness, but not quite as lively as A2. Some of that may be due to my hearing A2's bass as more full and forward than LiM. (I think others have used the term bass f*-ery to describe A2's bass but I'd say A2 bass is prominent to the point of slightly coloring the lower mids.) Timbre is where LiM shines and solo piano sounds very well sorted as a cohesive instrument of individual key notes and chord colors. (I used to play so that's how I hear classical piano.)

Treble kinda seems rolled-off but maybe that's at the highest end where the recording's space, the reverb "air" lives. As others have said, there is still plenty of detail up there, more than A2, so that's great. I wonder if there is something with more bits of data (I don't really get into that mess however) because it does seem like more data (upsampling, higher res source files, etc.) results in more of a reverby sound, in my experience. I think A2 presents more general reverb as I remember it, but I am definitely hearing more treble details with LiM in the treble frequencies of instruments and voices, as well as with what reverb I do hear. Hope that's not too contradictory.

So I'm impressed by the LiM's overall frequency balance, the bass qualities, and the increase in detail over A2 (again, I think because A2 presents certain details more prominently, thus sort of masking more subtle details). I want to hear "just one more song" thru LiM more because of the totality of a recording rather than just one aspect such as how bass slams or something. I also agree as others have posted that LiM makes you want to listen to the music, as opposed to the sound. I often hear something new, and it's not because it's jumping out at me so much as it's like part of the picture I didn't see clearly before, as if the contrast were adjusted so now with LiM, I can see a bit more evenly.

I think the A2 wins on the sound quality energy, so to speak. The LiM is more balanced and even-handed with the energy. The A2 propels me a bit more–it has more PRaT than LiM. Depending on your taste, this isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you want relentless PRaT then try a Chord Qutest! As @purr1n said about LiM, "it's not outright exciting all the time." A2 felt exciting most, if not all of the time.

I started by saying I wanted to be impressed more than I think I am. As others have posted, maybe after a few weeks I'll feel differently about the treble. And maybe I'll be listening to more music rather than sound qualities of my system.

I'm happy with my new, different DAC. LiM is "better" for music than A2 for me and my preferences. LiM's got timbre, it's more detailed, and it's more refined overall. But for now, it feels odd to call it Yggdrasil. For now...

 

Thanks for your comments. I am coming from a 2.0/NAIM/Dynaudio setup. Debating on LIM, BF2, or wait for them to finally upgrade Gungnir Multibit. @kukur9 do you regret the LIM purchase? If you have to keep one, which is it?

 

@schneller I have no idea what your tastes in music and sound are, so remember that here:

I pay attention to my biases because that's just how I am, and in audio, it's useful to remember when trying to suss out what gear you like/dislike. Before I wrote what I wrote, I thought about your question and both felt and decided that I like my new LiM because I think it presents music more like the recording intends. So I am hearing things that are more in balance, such as the bass guitar or kick drum, and I'm hearing more individual notes rather than low bass "hum."

For me, it comes down to the idea that the LiM isn't drawing attention to itself because it's exciting. I liked and do like the A2's excitement factor and I think it's a great DAC if you're into more electronic or produced music versus acoustic instruments, classical, vocal/chorus, and jazz. If you like the latter, then the LiM is probably more your cup of tea (or coffee? or whiskey?). A friend of mine prefers another brand altogether because he is a classical guy and he is even complaining that that brand, which I find a bit too restrained for my Metallica tastes, is still too edgy at times because he listens mostly to vinyl.

So hope this helps.

 

@rhythmdevils Did put any time on LIM through the Jensens? About to do the BAL / SE / Transformer dance; now that it's pretty broken in. Thanks!

 

I agree with @purr1n thst the SE outs on the LIM are not gimped. I think the SE out sounds better than the XLR out through a transformer. Though it’s pretty subtle. Basically it’s just not worse.

The non gimped SE outs is what I will miss most about the LIM. It’s nice to be able to run a balanced chain and an SE chain. And you get more outputs which is always handy.

with the A2 I have to run my Liquid Gold X and 789 and Jottenheim A SE in because I have to use an SE switcher after the Jensen transformer because one of my amps is SE. and I don’t want two switchers in the chain.

With the LIM I was planning on making a balanced switcher for the XLR out and using my SE switcher for the SE outs.

but I think all three of these amps sound basically the same SE or balanced in so I’m not sure it matters to much. I just want the transformer out of the chain.

 

When it comes to my 2.0 setup, it is mostly artists like Andrew Bird, Patrick Watson, Phoebe Bridgers. Indie rock. Indie folk.

I am also only focused on Schiit DACs with "non-gimped" SE outputs, such as BF2, MIL, LIM.

 

Is the tonal characteristic same in MiL as in LiM? My speakers (Elac Navis) are voiced somewhat dark and I sometimes would enjoy more sparkle up top. Currently using a BF2 and enjoy the slam specially with headphones through Jot2 but I find that when I listen to classical with the speakers it lacks some resolution.

 

I think we are looking for the same thing. My Dynaudio Contour 20 also are a little dark, laid back. I would like a new DAC to nudge the veil just a tad with some sparkle on top. Not much but just a little.

 

Nice taste in music!

 

Removed Phoebe Bridgers from the list....



Funny enough though, I had one of my first striking moments with the LIM listening to a Phoebe track, so I figured it was time to drop some impressions, as the LIM is the perfect puzzle piece for my chain so far.

Background:
I have owned a lot of Schiit DACs in my reference chain, my gateway drug was the Modi Multibit I made a big jump to the Gungnir Multibit A2 eventually, tried the downgrade to the BF2 (I was always kind of meh on this DAC, personally sounded kind of DS to me but maybe I am crazy). Tried the Soekris DAC 2541 after the BF2 but did not like how it staged with my 2 channel setup. I eventually landed on the Gungnir Multibit A1 for quite some time and I thought I would stay there and stop upgrading. Loved the synergy with my system, the tone/timbre. Well the itch came eventually and I snagged a Yggdrasil A2. This felt like an across-the-board upgrade to the Gungnir Multibit A1, but as time went on, I missed the smoothness of the Gungnir Multibit A1. The Yggdrasil A2 was just a bit TOO much in my chain. Too much bass, too engaging, too "hyper" for my sensibilities. You can see why I jumped at trying the LIM.

Chain:
Yggdrasil LIM -> Sugden A21SE -> Graham Chartwell LS3/5A
(Disclaimer: The Sugden A21SE is very new to me and I am still in the honeymoon stage. Some of my findings could be somewhat related to the Sugden. At the very least, my findings suggest a great synergy between this Class A amp and the LIM)

Impressions:
Everything people have posted about tone/timbre from this amp is ringing true for me. I mentioned I made the jump from Gungnir Multibit A1 to Yggdrasil A2 in hope for an upgrade in technicality, but I found they had some pretty major differences that threw my chain synergy out of whack. When I switched to the Sugden A21SE these issues became even more pronounced. My setup just sounded way too in your face and fatiguing. To me, the LIM sounds more like the true successor to the Gungnir Multibit A1. That satisfying, even, tone and timbre that I can listen to for hours, but improved across the board.

Biggest improvement when compared to both the Gungnir Multibit A1 and the Yggdrasil A2? Blackground. I know folks have already elaborated about it, but impossible to avoid talking about it when making this comparison, it is that stark of a difference. Blackground is kind of one of those things that I thought did not bug me, but the LIM really highlights how valuable it can be to presentation. I guess I just associated blackground with hyper-detailed/etched DACs, but the LIM shows you can have your cake and eat it to. I think the blackground is key to success here, as I think the LIM could sound kind of "boring" without the contrast the blackground provides to the sound.

With the Phoebe Bridgers track "Graceland Too" I mentioned at the beginning of this post, what really surprised me as a strength of the LIM, texture. I was really impressed by how "fleshy" and textured the sounds at the start of the track were (sounds like piano pedals striking? took me back to messing around on my old beat-up piano as a kid either way) and the banjo/piano texture in general on the track. Instruments just really seem to come alive in general from this DAC, where things seem to have a tangible texture in my space in a way I have not experienced. This is both engaging and satisfying, but most importantly for my setup, really fleshes out my speakers. Small speakers nearfield really need that sort of nuance to untether the music from these little wood boxes a few feet away.

At least with my speakers, I like the bass production of the LIM significantly more than the A2. Part of that is my speakers not being bassy, those of you who have read a lot of my stuff are probably sick of hearing about me and my fixation with listening to LS3/5A that rolloff at 70hz with no sub reinforcement, but it is important folks know I am not working with a "normal" chain here. The A2 bass could become too much in quantity and too bloated sounding, the LIM hits a sweet spot of feeling very tactile, precise but full without being bloated. Brings my speakers back into the sweet spot where I forget I am missing lots of bass frequency.

I just really appreciate that the LIM does not draw attention to itself until it does by surprising you by rendering something in a way you have not experienced before. As a vinyl nutjob, what I want out of my digital chain is to not be distracted by it, and not feel like I am missing out on too much not taking the time to spin a perfectly cleaned, flawless pressing of my favorite albums. I also want to feel like most music I feed it is going to sound good and I don't have to stress whether or not it is going to synergize with my DAC. I feel like the LIM is up to that challenge. A good example is a track from Sleigh Bells came up on Roon radio. I am going to level with you guys, I have never listened to Sleigh Bells and liked it. I am not a noise/distortion guy, and that disdain only became more pronounced when I got into Hi-Fi. For the first time, I did not hit skip and I felt I could enjoy the track without feeling like an icepick was being taken to my skull.

Now is the smooth, even-handed approach of the LIM for everyone? Absolutely not. I am sure I am missing some microdetail/plankton compared to the A2. I never compared directly so can't comment on this a ton. All I can say is I am no way missing it for how supremely natural and in-the-pocket the LIM sounds with my chain. The A2 ABSOLUTELY has more wow factor, it is hyper engaging, has a deeper/more holographic stage, and significantly more jaw-dropping moments while listening. So if you want to sit down at your system and have it just knock your socks off, and you have speakers that play nice with the bass reproduction of the A2, it is probably still the one for you. I do more of my listening nearfield, at moderate volume, for long sessions, with silly snobby little British speakers, and I get the feeling the LIM and are going to have a long fruitful relationship.

EDIT: One quick random observation that surprised me, the LIM runs way cooler than the A2. When I put my hand on it you would not know it was on, while the A2 was noticeably warm. A consideration for folks I suppose if they are using in some sort of desktop-style system.

 

Glad I wasn’t the only one that had such a strong (positive) reaction to LIM’s blackground coming from A2 - I characterized it in my review in the other thread as I must just be sensitive. Makes me feel less crazy! It is true that, if you go back to the A2 thread, there were a number of folks who couldn’t abide by the greyground, although, iirc, they usually were coming from non-Schiit DAC’s. I had a reaction coming from the BF2, which was the blackest of the multibit lineup as I understand it until LIM.

Can also confirm that my LIM-equipped Yggdrasil runs cooler than A2 did. Consequence of the class A in the discrete output stage, I would think.

 

Not that it really matters but I had the LIM stacked on top of the A2 and they were the same temperature…

 

I noticed that the LIM runs cooler, too.

 

Your mom runs cooler.

 

She sure IS cool!

 

Does a warmer LIM sound better than cooler LIM?

 

It definitely improved with warm up after a cold start, and with burn in, as others have been reporting. I would say when you first buy it, since burn is involved, it keeps improving for a week or two. After that it may only take a day to reach optimal performance according to other reports but I'm not sure l didn't turn it on and off.

 

If you have them stacked, the chassis will share and spread the heat. Meaning, if one was warmer or not, you might not be able to tell if they were that close.

 

I am guessing that is what is causing the difference. Mine has been on over a week, fed music 24/7 from roon/pi2aes, and is basically room temp to the touch. But it is not stacked, tons of airflow on each side, and up on Herbies tenderfeet

 

The grey-ground used to drive me crazy with the original Gungnir, but with A2 I wonder if any of you run any power conditioning ahead of your DAC? I tried a PS Audio P3 power regenerator (their smallest) and I think it is a major improvement in my world. It cleans up the A2 background quite handily. I have it in front of my LiM as well so I've not noticed a difference between the two in background noise floor.

(Note: this topic is almost as controversial and inconsistent as cable impressions, so YMMV. Also, FWIW, @Inoculator Herbie's Tenderfeet, yes! Fantastic and affordable!)