Cable Building

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Skyline, Sep 30, 2015.

Tags:
  1. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    So this is basically constructing a coax cable from the shield and wire I have, right? There's no "cross-connection" for the IC version, only the speaker cable (below), right?

    [​IMG]

    I straightened out enough of the stripped yellow Teflon to use for 2x 1m Venhaus cables (long enough to reach both my DACs, bypassing nanopatch). I might be able to fish enough out of the garbage for another 2x 1m for these reconstructed coaxials. The (supposedly) pure silver braided shield can be fattened to slide over the yellow Teflon, but the pure silver wire in teflon running down the inside of the yellow Teflon won't be held held exactly in the center of the coax. I assume this is not ideal for a proper coaxial conductor. Would it make any difference?

    Guess I can try and find some "hollow" cotton rope. You can sometimes find interesting and useful things in hardware-type stores in Taiwan, but usually it's difficult to replicate what's available in your good ole N. American hardware store ... <sigh>


    You reconstructed a coaxial cable from shielding and wire?

    Yeah, I'm planning on making a twisted pair just for comparison.
     
  2. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Maryland
    Does anyone know where I can find a better usbc connector for this? It's crap to put together... none of the bits really lock anywhere im just waiting for superglue to dry on the inside so hopefully the plug stays at the front :/

    [​IMG]
     
  3. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I have been eyeballing stuff like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003453459954.html
    I don't think you are going to get away from using some sort of glue, especially if the cable is going to be moved a lot. I typically use hot glue or epoxy. I find superglue to be a bit runny and take forever to set.
     
  4. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Maryland
    Hmm that does look like it may work better. I'm fine using glue, I just used CA because I had some gel super glue on hand and I didn't think hot glue was gonna cut it. My main problem with the plug I'm using is it's literally nothing but the glue stopping the plug itself from sliding into our out of the housing like usually these things go together so the housing screws onto something or at least stops it from moving in one direction...

    edit: I ordered some usbc plugs from them will epoxy this next one, not really happy with the connector I have on there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2022
  5. Fallenangel

    Fallenangel Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2021
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    Canada
    Made a pair for a friend
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Maryland
    Made some silver xlr interconnects because reasons... took a chance on some xlr plugs that claim either silver plated tellurium copper or brass because the next step up (that claims silver plated tellurium copper) gets significantly more expensive. They're totally brass, but still pretty good anyhow tbh... 2 plugged into each other measures < .0009 ohms while 1 plugged into a brass neutrik socket measures .0025 ish
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Will test some other rhodium plated 'tellurium copper" plugs (again trying to "cheap out" for fancy copper interconnects ;/) when they arrive. When I plug one into one of the cheapest gold plated neutrik sockets (I don't have plugs laying around) it's about ~.0025 ohms from contact to contact on the backs.

    No complaints with the wire though besides that it's not exactly cheap... and maybe they should have made it star quad config instead of the red wires shielded from the white maybe but minor complaint (there are 2 red & 2 white wires)
     
  7. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    Finally getting around to writing up my big Cu/Ag DIY cable comparo. Links are to the relevant post for each cable.
    • Mogami W2514 "Hi-Fi Hook-Up Wire" (21 AWG, 8-strand)
      • Darkest of all the cables, treble is smooth but slightly veiled
      • Bass is full but a touch bloomy
      • Rather stiff, wire is really too thick for a headphone cable
      • Was originally hardwired to my modded HD800, which the characteristics suited (but I'm glad I can now try my other cables with it)

    • Norne OCC Cu @fraggler (22 AWG, 8-strand)
      • A "neutral" sound, treble is smooth but not veiled
      • Bass is full, not bloomy, characteristic "copper sound"
      • Very supple, handles nicely, mechanically quiet
      • My go-to for non-analytical "easy" listening
      • No longer available from Norne

    • Ag/Cu Hybrid (8x Duelund 26 AWG, 4x Norne Cu DIY 22 AWG)
      • When I prototyped a silver-only with 8x Duelund, the treble was very clear and detailed, but bass felt limp and lacking. Adding 4x Norne Cu brings the best of both worlds: silver detail up top, copper phatness down low
      • More clear and detailed treble compared to Norne Cu, full "copper" bass
      • Sounds totally different from SPC, which I generally find to be "tizzy" up top
      • Duelund is oil-soaked cotton over solid Ag wire. Oil comes off on your hands initially, and took a while for the oily smell to wear off. Solid wires impart a bit of memory, so not the best handling cable. Also very expensive.

    • el cheapo pure Ag (25 AWG, 8-strand)
      • Slightly more clarity and detail than Ag/Cu Hybrid
      • Bass is very tight and punchy, a bit dry compared to Norne Cu, but doesn't suffer from the Duelund silver-only lack of bass.
      • Teflon insulator is significantly stiffer than Norne Cu, making for a stiffer, less supple, and more mechanically noisy cable
      • Most revealing of all the cables. A bit too bright sounding for HD800, works well with Stellia and BP800.
      • Excellent value if you're willing to put in the work to strip out the individual strands

    I've just finished making 3 different geometries of RCA-terminated ICs with the leftover el cheapo Ag wire and shielding (twisted pair, Belden 89259-style coax, VH DIY). I'll post build descriptions/pics shortly, and then start doing listening comparisons.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Epic Epic x 1
    • List
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
  8. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Maryland
    I just wanted to say I'm pretty sure I misreported my ohms numbers in the previous post with an extra 0, or the decimal place should be more like 0.009 / 0.025 not .0009 .0025 but I can't edit it now. Oops.
     
  9. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Munich, Germany
    Looks like I went for the same connectors as @Wobbletits above, but slightly different silver cables. I went full aliexpress for the RCA connectors aswell.
    As mentioned elsewhere I know I like these silver in oversized teflon wires, so that's what I used. A single solid-core conductor per phase for purity :p. For the XLR I soldered one of the wires to the outer part of the connector. In my experience I don't like how proper shielding sounds, although it's possible there are ways around that. Strain relief is handled by sticky backed felt rolled around the wires, although I admit it's not the best solution.

    These are my new DAC-AMP XLR cables and currently the RCA cable is for either the TT pre or my desk headphone setup (into the Vali). I'll need to build a second silver RCA cable as this easily outclasses the other cables I have.
    I'm also still waiting on BNC connectors for the Pi2AES to Gungnir Multibit connection.

    new cables (minus BNC) small.jpg

    I can't compare them to the Duelund or Jupiter silver in cotton yet, but I would say these sound more U-shaped. They still aren't harsh or anything and it's something I wanted for my interconnects. They did take a while to burn in and progressively get less U-shaped. I think they are very transparent, dynamic and expansive sounding cables, but I'm a silver fanboy, anyway.

    I tried to go with an aliexpress seller that didn't have brass in the description for the RCA plugs and on eBay these "star line" plugs seem to exist in all sorts of different configurations, including a pure silver contact one with a price to match. I still can't guarantee I actually got silver plated tellurium copper instead of silver plated brass, but I have a feeling these RCA plugs are easily worth the money regardless:
    Comparing the cable to a cable with the same conductors and same solder, but with fake entry-level gold plated WBT plugs, while this one is brighter, it also has better instrument delineation and is a tiny bit less closed in.

    I'm sure better cables exist. I'm sure the real Xhadow XLR plugs sound better than these fake ones. A construction with more or thicker conductors could also be better sounding. But these weren't terribly expensive, so that's that.
     
  10. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Maryland
    I also got some other random other "tellurium / rhodium" plugs that looked the same (as each other not xhadow knockoffs) but 1 set was brass, however I'm not sure which came from which vendor as the shipping got combined. Probably a similar situation with these plugs ;/ I said mine were brass because I literally sanded off some of the plating on one of the g pins and it looked like brass to me. Incidentally the listing for mine had the hollow pins pictured and I think that's the "better" version of the xhadow knockoffs, mine came with solid pins. I don't have both to compare though.

    Are those your super fancy cable lifters?
     
  11. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    2,594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    near Munich, Germany
    I can buy into the hollow pin thing, but the description mentioned brass conductors. The ones I can find which mention TeCu are Platinum plated and possibly solid pin (I trust the eBay pictures more than aliexpress) o_O.

    I'm contemplating getting the eBay silver plated TeCu RCAs for 25€ instead of 15€ for the brass aliexpress variant for a short 25cm RCA cable for my MOTU M4 - Vali connection. That way I could more or less compare them, although the cable would be cotton insulated instead of oversized Teflon.

    I also have some 2m Belden 8402 that I want to make similar XLR and RCA cables out of to compare against the silver. I didn't mention this directly, but it's implied by my choice of wire for my speakers (silver and tinned copper), but I seem to prefer tinned copper over regular copper. So it's either tinned copper or silver for me.

    LOL, the cable lifters. Initially I wanted to DIY something like the Shunyata Dark Field - an antistatic foam as a riser. However when I received my Pi2AES I was pleased to find that they come with antistatic packing peanuts. This material is supposed to lose its antistatic properties within months, but it will still have "vibration damping" properties then, if you buy into any of that. I sort of do, earlier experiments with felt and bubble wrap showed improvements IMO and I have a feeling these are better still. Could just be a massive placebo, though.
    I may still build a Shunyata clone when I'm bored in the future.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2022
  12. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    Here are the SE ICs I made using the leftover ~25 AWG multistrand Ag wires stripped from the elcheapo Mable USB cable.
    • Venhaus DIY Silver Interconnects: these were rather a PITA to put together, mainly because the Teflon sheathing was so slippery and stiff. I used athletic tape every 2" to hold the wires in place.
      silver VHa.jpg
      Then wrapped with Teflon tape to make sure they stayed in place.
      silver VHb.jpg
      And some PP mesh to finish.
      silver VHc.jpg

    • Belden 89259-style coax: The datasheet says the insulator is 3.429mm diameter, so I got some Teflon tubing: 10AWG ID (~3.5mm OD, clear) and 16AWG ID (~ 2.0mm OD, black) to slide inside it and hold the Ag wire in place in the center.
      silver coax a.jpg
      Then the Ag shielding and some black nylon mesh to finish.
      silver coax b.jpg silver coax c.jpg

    • Twisted pair:
      silver twisted.jpg
    Edit: connectors are Rean NYS373.

    Impressions and comparison below so I don't lose this post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
  13. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    I normally have DAC > chifi switcher > Nanopatch > SW51+ with various Mogami Neglex/coax in between. For this comparison I used Mogami Neglex 2534 (shield grounded at source end) direct from SFD-1 to SW51+ as a baseline (indistinguishable from my standard setup). Headphones were BP800 out of high-Z out.

    In order of expected audiophool performance.
    • Twisted pair Ag: Was a bit surprised to hear such a difference. Like a veil removed from lows through highs (similar to the difference between Cu and Ag headphone cables, so this could all be expectation bias). Vocals a touch more forward and treble a bit brighter and more detailed; bass tighter and more textured. Neglex bass sounded congested and bloomy in comparison, but vocals were smoother and less edgy. I much preferred the twisted pair Ag (... oh crap)

    • Belden 89259-style coax: Also surprisingly, not as good as the twisted pair. Bass was almost as congested and bloomy as the Neglex. Mids and highs about on par with twisted pair.

    • VH DIY: Couldn't consistently hear a difference compared to twisted pair. The VH were possibly a bit more U/V shaped with punchier bass, but I'd never pick them out in a blind test. I really didn't want to hear any difference (especially these being better) as they were a total PITA to make.
    So the twisted pair was the winner for sound and ease of construction. They're a bit delicate to handle, so I guess you could put them in some Teflon tubing or something, but I'm using them as is. I reterminated with 1/4" TRS and made up another set to connect to switcher > Nanopatch SW51+, and have the VH DIY connecting SFD-1 to the switcher. Can't hear any difference between this setup and VH DIY direct from SFD-1 to SW51+. Now all I need to do is make another set for BF2 > switcher, and I'm done (no, I'm not going to make balanced ones for LCv1).

    All in all, this silver cable from Mable was great value, 6m of el cheapo Ag 6C providing enough wire for 2m of 8-strand headphone cable and a complete set of SE ICs. Thanks @yotacowboy!

    alice_in_wonderland.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2022
  14. Wobbletits

    Wobbletits Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2022
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Maryland
    So just some random notes on these plugs... guess you kinda get what you pay for. No comment on the different wires yet ;/
    [​IMG]
    The first ones from before (all plugs measured plugged into their female counterpart) were .009 ohms (~$33), these black carbon fiber body plugs measure in the .008s (~$33), these other plugs with the black strain relief piece measure .006s and afaict are very similar in construction to the eizz xlr plugs roughly similar price (~$64) except one was missing a grub screw yay), and the monos audio plugs measure .0005 to .0004 so for 2-3x the price($100) I guess worst case they're 1/12th the resistance but uhhh already talking really small numbers. I had the easiest time terminating the monos plugs also, though some of that was because the strain relief for the screw termination plugs was a ridiculously tight fit to get over the cloth on that one cable.

    So on to the disappointment of my janky ass tests, not that ohms are the only important thing or anything but the only way I have to compare them at this point.
    [​IMG]
    Viborg 4 pin xlr (~$33)vs eidolic 4 pin xlr(~$28), both "tellurium copper/rhodium", measured plugged into a viborg socket, the viborg pins are ~.00025 ohm and the eidolic were ~.0075 which is still "good" I guess.

    The mini xlrs I'm slightly less sure of you can see my super fancy scientific test rig in the picture. I was having a hard time getting the wire to contact the female sockets well on the eidolic so maybe if I had a socket I could get a more consistent measurement but the furutech mini xlrs(~$24 each) it was easy to get about .006 ohms from the little wire to the back of the contacts, eidolic (~$22 each) I was seeing... .02 or maybe sometimes in the .00s but never quite as low. I'm about 90% confident the furutech mini xlrs measure lower resistance. So I guess my fancier cable will be viborg / furutech though ohms aren't everything, I just don't have a better way to compare the plugs right now... subjective comparisons will take a lot longer and they're not on the same wire so ;/

    Objectively the furutech minixlr plug is a little shorter which is a plus but might be a little harder to fit a 4 wire braid into the opening of. I might use the eidolic full size xlr on a hd6?? cable and just save the eidolic minixlrs for a later date.
     
  15. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2020
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Home Page:
    I'm looking for a good bulk copper wire to make some interconnects with. Does anyone have any recommendations? I want it to have very neutral tone and good resolution.

    I found this OCC copper Furutech wire on Aliexpress. I love OCC copper wire and combining that with a reputable no nonsense company sounds good. But I've never heard it and I read there are fakes on ebay and Aliexpress.

    Here's some links to 2 kinds, I'm not sure what the difference is

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002466523482.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.3ed82e0ejB8Ijv

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803082554999.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.3ed82e0ejB8Ijv

    Any other recommendations? thanks!
     
  16. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Toronto
    The Furutech stuff I have used is great - I use their connectors a lot. I would be concerned with the stuff on AliExpress and Ebay. Furutech released a statement about counterfeit branded materials.

    https://www.furutech.com/2021/02/18/20476/

    For no-nonsense copper, I like the mogami starquad stuff - I am listening to a Neglex 2534 based cable right now and it's very nice. It's pro cable and very reasonably priced.
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2020
    Likes Received:
    12,238
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Home Page:
    Id like to find something better than the Mogami/blue jeans types but not $400 per meter. OCC copper would be a plus.

    I can’t find anywhere to buy that Furutech OCC copper cable other than AliExpress.
     
  18. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,084
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I wouldn't trust any branded stuff on Aliexpress. Could be just as good or better than the original, but if you wanted actual Furutech, I would go through official dealers:
    https://www.vhaudio.com/furutech-fa-as22.html


    Neotech in Taiwan was kind of the OG of UPOCC wire and was one of the only places to get it made officially. They OEM'd for a ton of companies. Not sure who they build for still, but their interconnects are really reasonably priced: https://www.takefiveaudio.com/categories/207-neotech-cryo-treated-interconnect
    If you want Coax: https://www.soniccraft.com/product_...-1883?osCsid=8654141021d98ef218e9b578eea6fe3d
     
  19. Justin S

    Justin S Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Likes Received:
    1,506
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Toronto
    I like the Neotech stuff, too. I also buy from TakeFive here in Canada. I have a balanced braided cable using

    Neotech UPOCC 24 AWG Stranded Teflon
    https://www.takefiveaudio.com/categories/209-neotech-cryo-treated-copper-silver-hook-up-wire

    I wired it up as a ZMF/Audeze-spec cable a while ago. It sounded quite good. I am not sure if it was much different from the Mogami, though. I have to re-terminate it for the Focals but that is way down on my list of things to do. @rhythmdevils , If you would like to borrow it to check it out, drop me a PM and we can figure something out.
     
  20. Inoculator

    Inoculator Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Likes Received:
    3,522
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    I use the FA-as22 for both balanced and SE interconnects throughout my system, absolutely love it. Looks nice without any additional wrap, a bit stiff so plan your runs accordingly.
     

Share This Page