Headphones with good staging

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Grattle, Mar 9, 2022.

  1. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    10,961
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    The DT880 is certainly wide in headstage but it feels oddly flat and very intimate (i.e. the headstage goes THROUGH my head from left to right). I do think that translates to being compact still though.

    Probably even less popular than the Meze Empyrean Elite (which I've not heard) but one of the things I love about the Klipsch HP-3 is how it has a deep and cohesive headstage with really crisp imaging and directionality. The voicing is certainly niche but it does pair well with warmer upstreams.
     
  2. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Since we're just tossing random suggestions around, the Forssell MDAC-2 is one of my top dac pics for staging. Fred Forssell is retired now though, so his stuff is increasingly difficult to find as people are hoarding his gear.
     
  3. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2015
    Likes Received:
    5,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    small island claimed by China
    How does it compare to SFD-1 Mk2?
     
  4. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    Sorry, I haven't heard the SFD-1...
     
  5. Woland

    Woland Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    a friendly land
    Just a heads-up for other MacBook users trialling this - the optional head tracking works well but incurs a hefty CPU load. With internal fan at maximum and an external cooler, my MacBook Pro is still on the verge of overheating - and there's a lot of background noise because of it. This is a known fault, discussed elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2022
  6. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

    Pyrate BWC MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    18,653
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    On planet
    The head tracking is nifty ... for about an hour or for initial impressum demonstrations. I don't use it.
     
  7. Woland

    Woland Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,311
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    a friendly land
  8. poohlikehoney

    poohlikehoney Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2018
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Location:
    Earth
    The hd800 off the studio b is the widest staging headphone setup I've heard. The verite does trail the hd800 in terms of size but is no slouch and likely the next best in my experience.
     
  9. eskamobob1

    eskamobob1 Acquaintance

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2022
    Likes Received:
    51
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    SoCal
    I mean, utopia also has the smallest stage of the TOTL cans though. I do love the hell out of the d8kp but its pretty intimate. The D8k OG stages much larger but even that isnt huge IMO

    Can we get a budget? Cause that will matter a lot for the reqs
     
  10. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    USA
    No budget really. I was really hoping to a) find out what headphones stage best, and b) have a reference thread for headphone staging instead of having to search through dozens of impressions threads.

    I may end up trying an HD800 variant at some point in the future. I’ve yet to hear one.
     
  11. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,274
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Bird-watcher's paradise
    I've always thought I was just lousy at perceiving staging characteristics in headphones, which is ironic, as it seems as if I am pretty sensitive to indistinct imaging. Like I want to be able to precisely know where inside my head every component of the music is. The hd800 is the headphone I have heard that sounded the most like speakers in staging (though still not close imo), but it had a diffuse quality that sounded unnatural in a headphone. And I found the imaging indistinct, a bit like everything was everywhere. I hope that makes sense. I heard it on an og Jot, (not rec'd) a Valhalla 2 (better but not great tonally, more expansive), and an og Vali, which had the smallest stage, and I thought sounded the best. But it was not for me certainly. Apparently large and good are not necessarily coterminous for me.

    The Elex have the most precise imaging and are most likely to place info seemingly outside of my head, but I am sure there are better. But my other open headphones are 6xx and Sundara, the latter of which I would say is somewhere between the others. The imaging is better on the 6xx though. But none of them are masters of staging. But it is not a priority for me, at least at the price level I can afford. I have speakers for that. And even my cheap-ass Triangles beat any hp I have heard in staging. Maybe obvious, but there it is.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2022
  12. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Likes Received:
    395
    Trophy Points:
    53
    Location:
    DMV
    In terms of sheer size and dimension, it's a toss up between the HD800 and ADX5000 from a good DHT amp and (usually) high Z out.

    The most natural\convincing staging I've heard was from a STAX SR-009 sourced from a mystery DAC with a tube stage (Kondo maybe??). Depending on what's behind it, the Utopia can come pretty close.

    Here's an unpopular opinion. IME, at least with the better dynamic drivers I'm familiar with, once you start going beyond that last 5% of staging performance, the headphones start mattering less and your upstream gear and system matching starts mattering a lot more. For example, my HD650 or 580, which aren't known for their staging performance, will actually stage much better on my main system than something like the Verite on another system. As always, YMMV.
     
  13. zottel

    zottel Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2022
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Franconia, Germany
    The Hifiman Ananda provides a very wide stage for relatively little money. Can’t say I personally compared it to much other gear, the only other hifi headphone I heard myself is the HD650, and the Ananda beats that by far in terms of stage. Lacking personal experience, I can only repeat others’ opinions and say that it is “known for” a wide soundstage.

    To add my own 5ct, to me the Ananda’s stage is very wide and rather tall, but not deep, from my Jot 2 ESS, maybe a bit deeper from the EarMen Sparrow. This sometimes leads to the strange sensation that sound seems to come from a region in front of and above my head. Other recordings lead to a soundstage in the form of a large wooden beam going through my head from left to right. Hope that makes sense to you. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2022
  14. Clemmaster

    Clemmaster Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2015
    Likes Received:
    3,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All the big cupped Hifiman: Edition X / Arya / HE1k, both from driver size and withdrawn upper mids.
     
  15. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2019
    Likes Received:
    777
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Osaka
    I have been going through this myself as I have been looking for a gaming/movie headphone.

    Most of these have already been mentioned but in order of price (as that is always a factor when you as cheap as me) the headphones that I have tried which stood out for me most were:

    Koss KSC75
    AKG K701
    Beyerdynamic DT880 (600 ohm ideally but others also fine)
    Phillips Fidelio X3
    AKG Q701 (K702. is supposedly the same, but IDK never tried it)
    AKG K712
    Sennheiser HD700
    Sennheiser HD800

    All of those had a larger stage than average open backs IMO. The AKG k series is the king of the big ass stage up until you get to the HD800 IMO, the k712 has the smallest of them but has slightly better imaging as a trade off (and better bass). They all have weird FR but even if you EQ them to a more "normal" sound they still keep the huge stage for the most part, much more so than a lot of other headphones. Without EQ the K712 is the easiest to recommend, as its got a super weird unique FR, but its a fun sort of weird.

    I really liked the Q701 back in the day and wish I had not sold my Austrian one, might try to get one again to compare with the K712.
    If you are looking for some headphones just to occasionally play around with huge staging, the AKGs are the way to go imo, as they arent that expensive compared to the HD800.

    I would not recommend the HD700 personally even with EQ for most people, I tried it again recently as I saw people praising it with heavy EQ as being a soundstage champ but.......I have to disagree personally. It does stage wide but it always sounded off to me even with HEAVY eq, I could never fully get rid of that odd resonance it has. Might not bother everyone but it was annoying for me.

    I also would not recommend the HIfiman Sundara which gets mentioned as having a great soundstage, along with being the second coming of headphone jesus in most non-SBAF circles...its really not that great soundstage wise, slightly better than a hd 650, and just slightly. Got one right now and the K712 makes it seem super tiny. Cant speak to the big driver Hifimans as I have never owned or demoed one for a extended period, I would assume they are better.
     
  16. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

    Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Likes Received:
    7,469
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Winnipeg
    I'm a broken record about this, but I feel that the K612 is better than any of the 7## series.
     
  17. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2019
    Likes Received:
    777
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Osaka

    I always forget the K612 exists lol. Its definitely the most neutral of the AKG big cup headphones, but I wasnt a huge fan of it personally. I dont know why exactly, but the K7 series seemed to me to have a bigger stage and cleaner albeit brighter treble than the 612. There was something about the 612 that irritated me, I was never able to figure out where it was to EQ out, but it always had an edgy quality to the treble. I found just eqing the K7 series to a more normal FR to be more enjoyable for me, but if you want neutrality out of the box, the K612 would be the way to go.

    its worth noting the K612 I had was one of the Chinese ones and I was comparing it to Austrian Q701 and Slovakian K712, I dont know that it actually makes any difference but some say that it does. For all I know I had a crap one.

    That is actually one of the reasons to go for the K712 over the rest of the series, I believe it is still made in Slovakia (one I got was) while all of the others were moved to the Chinese factories. I would assume the QA is better on the K712s than the others.
     
  18. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2020
    Likes Received:
    381
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Spain
    Quick question if you don't mind. How would you say does the stage compare between these 3 headphones? Does the HD700 and HD800 stage similarly? Are they both wider and more precise than the K712?
     
  19. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2019
    Likes Received:
    777
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Osaka

    The HD800 is both wider and more precise than the K712 and has a clearer central image which is one of the k712s flaws imo (with stock pads), the central image is not so strong and is unnaturally distant which can throw off positional audio in games.

    The HD700 (assuming you EQ it)also has a bit stronger center image and better imaging overall but the width and height is less than the K712.For strictly competitive gaming style usage (with EQ), the HD700 is actually better than the K712 (stock pads) IMO . You just have to detail with the weird 6k resonance effect which doesn't throw off the soundstage or imaging, it is just annoying.

    The HD800 is just better than the 700 IMO, both in terms of width and precision, however with EQ the 700 can sound less diffuse than the 800..if that makes sense. In other words the 700 can sound wide without being unnaturally wide (again with EQ). I could see someone preferring the 700 if the very diffuse field of the 800 bothered them more than the 700s odd resonance effect .

    When I had the 700 heavily Eqed I got it to basically be a wider 650, it kept the strong central image, just moved it slightly out of the head and had a larger stage with no 3 blob effect.. It was an improvement, but honestly not as impressive as the AKGs or 800 in terms of size.

    HD700 is also just not usable for most people without EQ, 800 and K712 have FRs one could live with without EQ.
     
  20. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Likes Received:
    3,026
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Rapallo, Italy
    Either of the Veritès with Be2 or Veritè leather pads.

    Universe pads make the staging largest of all and while very engaging its also slightly unnatural in proportion and imaging the way the HD800 can be.

    Suede pads blur the imaging the same way they blur the transients, which I suspect is not a coincidence.
     

Share This Page