Bought a Gungnir Multibit... So far not impressed. Why?

Yeah and to be fair, I really wish I could hear 'vintage' DACs from the 90's especially Mike's Theta work and compare to the current landscape. But I'm very happy with my Gungnir Multibit and not buying anything else anytime soon.

 

The Gungnir Multibit imho is a step towards my preference but really not enough. I can see why someone could compare old dacs to it. The new dacs I've heard are all going several steps away from my taste. Except for sabres. They are going a hell of a lot away from my taste.
That leads me to wonder wtf is going on with audiphiles these days? All those singing the praise of digital sound hearing bad sabre based dacs what the hell have been listening to so far? No offence meant but that sound is the antipode imho of how music should sound. Sure I haven't heard 'em all but the few I listened led me to that idea, although it is often wrong to generalize like I'm doing.

Good for you man
If you found happyness stick with it and don't read any forum

 

R2R DACs became overly expensive and/or went out of production, and DS was cheap and easily marketed for high bit depths and sample rates.

Newer audiophiles with little-to-no experience with good analog systems or vintage DACs (or perhaps even good live acoustics) would slowly become used to an overly clean, dry sound.

In short the current landscape seems to be a function of marketing, cost-cutting and a lack of expectations. One can only hope that the vinyl revolution inspires some change on the digital side of things.

 

I just came from a sabre based dac in the form of the oppo ha-1. That dac has a particularly dry, (slightly) metallic sheen. Just not realistic sounding. After two weeks with the Gungnir Multibit, I'll be keeping it around. The ha-1 is actually a terrific performing amp; the dac not so much. The Gungnir Multibit is pretty much reference quality for me at >1500

 

I think a good DAC always still need to balance between detail-retreiver and musical engaging. I have only heard very few R2R DAC from Theta, Parasound, Mark Levison,Krell and found all of them are very engaging but in term of details, well they are not always the best when compare to recently DAC (Theta DS pro is the exception). And up-to-face detail in most case is the first wow factor when one first auditions a new DAC. That is probably why Sabre DACs have been very popular lately, when compare to the one using Bur Brown and Wolfson, because they normally get more details from the source even though they are not good in term of create the musical sound.

 

Little experience from one side and cost cutting from the other. That is agreeable. Wouldn't the press be to blame for this too? For giving the audiophiles the illusion of progress. For hyping over every new dac and every new file format as a step forward. I mean if redbook playback sucks maybe the answer is not increaseing the specs of the format... maybe is trying to find a way to play RB in a good way.
Those of you with even a Gungnir Multibit can understand how much detail, ambiance and harmonic content is still hidden in that format and I got the impression that not everyone is aware of it.
Maybe vinyl revolution (as you called it) is the response to this poorly "musical" dacs and cdps? Everyone who has the chance to listen to a barely decent if not mediocre analog rig (say 1000\1500 usd new) would use his harsh super technical d\s dac as a paperweight imho.

 

Vinyl does rule, but its not for everyone. Spend more money on your vinyl rig and media is very good advice, though.

 

Look into MHDT Labs dacs. The Atlantis or Stockholm might suit your taste.

 

And when did they start making a Windows version of A+ ?

 

I don't think I've indicated that?

 

I took a look at the site but there are few dealbreaker. Only 1 year warranty, No EU distributor and most of all no return policy. At lest I couldn't find any in their site.
I see you have the atlantis... mind to tell me how it sounds? I take you read my posts above and think it would suit my taste.
Edit: Did you get to compare it with stuff from counterpoint, sf, micromega and the alike?

 

I bought mine from Taiwan because the US distributor sucks at responding. You can also resell them very easily at places like Audiogon because people there know about them.

The Atlantis at its core is highly musical with a very organic sound to it. It uses some of the most well-regarded R/2R chips of all time, the AD1862N-J.

Use Google translate to read this page: http://vasiltech.narod.ru/files/DAC-Bits.txt

It offers a pretty good ranking of the best vintage multibit dac chips out there: Philips TDA1541A, Analog Devices AD1862, Ultra Analog D20400, Burr-Brown PCM63/PCM1702/PCM1704

The Atlantis offers both detail and euphony. If you find it too dark, you can roll in a Bendix, Tesla, or Sylvania Gold tube to brighten things up (Bendix probably offering the best extension in both directions). Want to smooth things out and open up the soundstage further? Roll a Western Electric 2C51/396A. Want something with good extension, awesome bass, and a lush quality to it? GE Triple Mica tubes do the trick.

There are dozens of tubes that can be used to alter the sound slightly, which is a great feature for me because I tend to have very specific preferences (slightly lowered treble, enhanced bass, instrument timbre). I also run it into a tube amplifier for further tuning.

I personally love the GE Triple Mica tubes because they are affordable (you can find good ones for under $20, sometimes close to $10) and have good quality that you can build on with the amp and its dac. Western Electrics are super smooth and best complemented with a brighter tube in the amplifier. Bendix are the best for detail, but they're very expensive and I would need to combine them with a dark tube in the amp so I won't be keeping them.

I've officially tried way too many tubes for this dac:

• Tung-Sol JTL-2C51
• RCA Command 5670
• Westinghouse 5670
• Sylvania JHS 2C51
• Motorola 5670
• Raytheon JAN 5670
• CBS JHY-2C51
• Sylvania Gold Brand
• CBS Industrial
• Sylvania JAN
• Raytheon CK5670
• Tung-Sol Halo
• Western Electric (JW, D-Getter, Etc.)
• GE 5 Star Red Triple Mica
• GE 5 Star White Triple Mica
• GE Triple Mica (non 5 star, but sounds the same)

I've settled on the GE Triple Micas as a relatively easy to find option that suits my needs. I also have 6N2P-EV tubes with an adapter that I quite like.

The rest will be sold at some point.

Basically the MHDT Labs dacs seem to be largely what you're looking for. If not those, the Audio-GD PCM1704U-K dacs would be a great choice to try out. They have some tuning points built in via jumpers as well, though it doesn't make as significant a sonic impact as tube rolling does.

To get what you're looking for, you're going to have to look into the dark corners of the internet for dacs that aren't as well-known. I suffer from the same desires as you. I dislike most of the Schiit stuff because I find it to be too harsh, or bright, or grainy, or aggressive. I spent a couple years buying and selling headphones, dacs, and amplifiers until I finally found what I was after.

I took a risk buying the MHDT Labs Atlantis because nobody else even had one. The extremely positive reviews for all of MHDT's products pushed me, and I'm glad it did.

My suggestion is to email MHDT Labs and ask them if you could try out a Stockholm V2 or Atlantis and return it if you don't like it. Looking at the eBay listing, it says 14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping.

So you'd just be out the shipping cost to try it out. Not a big deal at all!

 

Thank you for taking your time to write this. I'm sure it will be helpful. Shipping from and to america is no joke. 55 + 100 (for the return, italian shipping services are expensive) usd shipping cost plus vat and custom. Not really in the mood for burning 300\400 usd to try.
You see why I was looking for the EU dealer. As for now I'll stay in the shadow sniping a sh deal. I'll include mhdt labs dacs in my shortlist. Finding one used already in EU could be a nice way to try one without burning too much money.
Thanks for the link, very instructive.

I agree. Very similar to my experience. I Won't pay again for my library just because someone feels like ripping me off with this funky sounding DSD. And it DOES sound different, but not in a good way to me. Could be the gear, could be the format. Don't care. Screw them... let redbook sing!

 

When you say from Taiwan, you mean brick and mortar shop in Taiwan or some online retailer based in Taiwan(which one ?)?

 

Directly from MHDT. Emailed, got a PayPal invoice, got a sweet dac. It's cheaper that way than eBay because they save on fees.

 

Worth remembering in all this is of course also system synergy.

A hyper realistic DAC in a very transparent system may not be everyone's taste and may lack "emotion".

On the other end of the scale a smooth DAC in a less transparent system will probably make you fall asleep.

The happy medium lies somewhere in the middle for most people, but how you get there may differ.

 

Same here, i got the yggdrasil for quite some time now, and its good, but nowhere near OMGWTFBBQ as people here like to put it as. Then again, i come from the Debussey and other multibit dacs etc, so it might just be me being used to the multibit magic already.

And my room isnt the best, so i dont think im getting the full soundstage magic.

Main complaints, could be warmer, more liquid and organic sounding. Otherwise, pretty nice.

This is coming from a ML30.6 though.

 

Rotijon sounds like you're describing the Gungnir Multibit.

 

Implementing a DAC is non-marginal engineering task. The Sabre is an excellent D/A chip, but it requires a strong output stage.

Oldskool R2R / multibit DACs are off the table for me because I demand DSD. That basically restricts me to Sabre, 4490, 8741(2), a few other DS chips and FPGA implementations. Moreover, I'm trying to build a super-high-SNR system for the HE-6 based on the Benchmark AHB2 and its 130 dB SNR. Standard DACs have way lower SNR. Some Chinese dealer claimed the Gustard X20 has a SNR of 130 dB, which does coincide with ESS claims they get out of Sabre in a balanced configuration -- and the thing has I2S so that lets me get the Pink Faun controller. The concept is to get ultra high resolution playback chain with really strong noise and dynamic performance to realize the benefits of DSD.

 

You could try soekris, it's r2r with dsd support. I think snr isn't as good as sabre though
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