System Synergy - Special Sound

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by atomicbob, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Yeskey

    abraxas666 said:
    "I am dealing with this great conondrum at the moment, buy a USB decrapifier or replace my Bifrost Multibit for a Gungnir Multibit\Yggdrasil."

    As a Bifrost Multibit user myself, I'd say skip the decrapifier and go for the higher-end dac. A higher end-dac is a guaranteed performance whereas decrapifiers are mostly toss-ups and tonality shifts depending on what your current source chain is. And that's coming from someone who experimented with the wyrd and ended up selling it after I moved to coaxial spdif. Now there's some real gains right there.

    Yeskey, May 20, 2017
     
  2. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Mshenay

    Yeskey said:
    "As a Bifrost Multibit user myself, I'd say skip the decrapifier and go for the higher-end dac. A higher end-dac is a guaranteed performance whereas decrapifiers are mostly toss-ups and tonality shifts depending on what your current source chain is. And that's coming from someone who experimented with the wyrd and ended up selling it after I moved to coaxial spdif. Now there's some real gains right there."

    I've heard that Jason recommends using coaxial over USB, but if your like me, and you have no Coaxial Output, I'll mention that a $35 USB 2.0 PCI Card gave my Audio GD NFB10ES2 a blacker back ground with USB. So if your curious about making gains, I'd really recommend trying that. As my Mother Board usb's were really noisy, even with me entire rig running through a Furman power conditioner... plus extra usb ports are always nice

    Mshenay, May 20, 2017
     
  3. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    PAGE 19 of the O.G. thread:
     
  4. earnmyturns

    earnmyturns Smartest friend

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    @earnmyturns

    abraxas666 said:
    "I am dealing with this great conondrum at the moment, buy a USB decrapifier or replace my Bifrost Multibit for a Gungnir Multibit\Yggdrasil."

    The Gungnir Multibit and the Yggdrasil have better USB receivers than the Bifrost Multibit, but they can't fully overcome a bad USB source. I don't know why you feel you need a decrapifier, but if you need it for the Bifrost Multibit you might also need it for the other DACs. I'm skeptical of USB decrapifiers, I'd rather spend on a better USB source (like a microRendu) or a good USB>S/PDIF converter (like a Singxer SU-1) to bypass the DAC USB receiver, which is a source of switching noise.

    earnmyturns, May 20, 2017
     
  5. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    @cskippy

    Generally, unless there are obvious sound issues, there is no reason to use a decrapifier. On my 2016 Macbook Pro, which will barely spit out anything resembling audio over USB, a Wyrd made all of that go away.

    Last edited: May 20, 2017
    cskippy, May 20, 2017
     
  6. abraxas666

    abraxas666 Friend

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    @abraxas666

    I guess, I was including in the "decrapifiers" the Singxer and Mutec which is more what I had in mind (due to their price). Thus my ill informed comment.

    abraxas666, May 20, 2017
     
  7. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    @Changeling

    zerodeefex said:
    "Things to do to improve your audio over USB:
    1. Try using linux if you can. MPD is awesome. Don't use optical on a mac. Don't use optical on 70% of random motherboards.
    2. Does your DAC cost less than $1000? If so, sign out of this thread. Don't come back. Enjoy your music.
    3. Do you have an Yggdrasil? If not, buy one before continuing. If you don't have the money, don't waste it on random USB defuckifiers outside of maybe the Wyrd.
    4. Try the Wyrd first.
    5. Do you have an Yggdrasil yet? If not, sign out of this thread. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
    6. Have an yggdrasil and still unhappy? Don't buy the regen. It's a downgrade. It sounds different but after a while with speakers you'll understand what I'm saying when I say it's a downgrade. Get the Lynx E22. The Mutec 3+ might be good, but until Marv, Christian, or I get to listen to one, I am going to remain skeptical.
    7. Still unsatisfied? Buy a house. Get married or find a life partner. Have kids or adopt some pets from the local shelter.
    8. Still unsatisfied and those little rugrats haven't bled you dry? Want to indulge your audiophile nervosa? Move to vinyl. Come with a big ass wallet. Expect to start with a "modest" $1000 setup and slowly spend more over time until you wake up with a $2000 cart in one hand, $10,000 in tubes for your pre based off some RCA design from the 30s in the other, dried wood glue all over the side of your face, and "azimuth" tattooed on your ass.

    Click to expand..."


    This.
    Changeling, May 20, 2017
     
  8. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    @Changeling

    Torq said:
    "Questions about what "sounds best" for the various means of getting a clean AES or S/PDIF to a DAC came up in several threads prior to the server burp ... and while those posts are lost and I can't link them back here, since I had the information anyway, I'm going to repost it here (where it belongs):
    --
    While I have never gotten around to writing it up, I did an extensive comparison of AOIP/NAI and AES converters late last year (though admittedly sticking mostly to stuff that can work with Roon). From best to worst sound quality I found the results to be:
    1. Aries -> DAC
    2. RedNet -> Mutec MC-3+ -> DAC
    3. Lynx* -> Mutec MC-3+ -> DAC
    4. Aries LE -> Mutec MC-3+ -> DAC
    5. RedNet -> DAC
    6. Lynx* -> DAC
    7. Aries LE -> DAC
    8. Sonore MicroRendu -> Mutec MC-3+ USB -> DAC
    9. Mac Mini -> Mutec MC-3+ USB -> DAC
    10. Raspberry Pi + Digi+ Pro -> Mutec MC-3+ -> DAC
    11. Raspberry Pi -> Mutec MC-3+ USB -> DAC
    12. Sonore SonicOrbiter SE -> Mutec MC-3+ USB -> DAC

    In all the above cases the DAC was connected by either its AES input (best) or COAX S/PDIF.

    Mutec MC-3+ and Mutec MC-3+ USB sound identical. They are only listed specifically above to denote where you MUST have the version with a USB input form it to work.

    Aries and Aries LE are different versions of the product. The "LE" version is the cheaper version. The full "Aries" adds dual femto clocks, lower noise circuitry, more internal RAM and an external low-noise LPS.

    Adding a Mutec MC-3+ to the full version of the Aries results in worse results than using the Aries AES or S/PDIF outputs directly.

    When driving a DAC with proper internal re-clocking, such as Yggdrasil or Gungnir, I could hear no difference between items 2 vs. 5 and 3 vs. 6. The same configuration into the Spring DAC did yield audible differences with the Mutec device in the chain.

    References to "Lynx" include every professional PCIe AES/S/PDIF card I tried. I found no audible difference at all between any of them. You will generally see me claim that I have not heard the Lynx cards ... I actually have, but only as part of the above test and I don't have a way to run/test them anymore.

    Finally, the differences from top to bottom in this list are very small. If we gave option 1 a score of 100, then 2,3 and 4 would score a 99. 5, 6 and 7 would score a 97 or 98. And 8 through twelve would score a 95 or 96.

    To put that into further perspective, 1 through 7 are not something you're likely to hear differences between just listening to music. You'd have to be focusing as if you were auditioning them to tell any difference at all.

    Click to expand..."


    And this.
    Words to live by in my book.
    Changeling, May 20, 2017
     
  9. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    Marvey

    In most instances, and from a purist point of view, I would frown upon the use of a preamp to color the sound of an amp. This is because more often than not, we end up with the worst of both worlds (tube and solid-state). However, in this instance, it just works. The Saga is transparent, in the sense that very little resolution, if any, is lost; and what it adds, a small bit of euphony, more open deeper stage, is desirable. This combination is really the best of both worlds.

    Last edited: May 24, 2017
    Marvey, May 24, 2017
     
  10. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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  11. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    @cskippy

    That just doesn't make sense, unless maybe you're using Jot for balanced active monitors? Think of Jot as the power amp for speakers (headphones in this case).

    cskippy, May 24, 2017
     
  12. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    @Garns

    cskippy said:
    "unless maybe you're using Jot for balanced active monitors?"

    I did not enjoy this. With headphones FR is sufficiently all over the shop that it's not too hard to find something which ameliorates the Jot treble. With monitors you are generally looking at a fairly flat FR ergo a world of treble hurt with the Jot as preamp.

    In other news: I tried the phase reversal trick with Yggdrasil -> Freya -> balanced monitors. One 3pin XLR out of Freya wired out of phase, same channel reversed in software. Unlike with Jot or Valhalla, for the life of me I cannot hear the slightest difference. That's more or less what I expected, given that everything is fully differential so that both phases are present on each channel already. It does imply that the Freya does the sensible thing and uses the two triodes in each tube to provide gain for the + and - phase of one channel.

    I will nonetheless leave the speakers with phase reversal in place just for convenience when switching between speakers and headphones (which already use phase reversal)

    Garns, May 24, 2017
     
  13. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    @atomicbob

    batriq said:
    "I'm basically where @atomicbob was in #124 5 months ago [​IMG]
    I usually listen to speakers, and I have never enjoyed my headphone system this much."


    Currently listening to a very similar setup to yours @batriq
    Picture18 copy.jpg


    Using this one pictured above for dialogue editing and recreational listening during breaks.

    And this one receives a lot of listening time as well:

    atomicbob said:
    "The Protester - an excellent place to begin (and maybe stay for a long time):"

    atomicbob, May 25, 2017
     
  14. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    @Changeling

    Changeling said:
    "Hey, pre-configured, thanks! So that one I'll just use with my balanced system (Yggdrasil/Mjolnir2) or can I order 2 of them and use my existing XLR-1/4 adapter together with the PR adapter for Vali2? <- stupid question before searching.

    Frick, I don't know these things [​IMG]

    Edit: Ignore me I'm stupid. I did a forum search... [​IMG]
    Two adapters ordered for my two systems.
    Thanks @atomicbob & @Garns"


    So. The PRT adapters + software flipper are both installed. This is not a subtle change at all. How am I supposed to get anything done rest of this working day? ...
    Changeling, May 30, 2017
     
  15. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    @atomicbob

    Changeling said:
    "So. The PRT adapters + software flipper are both installed. This is not a subtle change at all. How am I supposed to get anything done rest of this working day? ..."

    The IVS system total performance exceeds a simple summation of the system components, including DAC, amp, headphones. The resulting immersion does provide an absorbing distraction that I find often interfering with multitasking. Shutting down several of the IVS software components, lowering the sound level and playing chewing gum music helps.

    atomicbob, May 30, 2017
     
  16. Changeling

    Changeling Tube Slut

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    @Changeling

    atomicbob said:
    "The IVS system total performance exceeds a simple summation of the system components, including DAC, amp, headphones. The resulting immersion does provide an absorbing distraction that I find often interfering with multitasking. Shutting down several of the IVS software components, lowering the sound level and playing chewing gum music helps."

    Haha, fair point. I guess purchasing 8 albums from Pi Recordings was not such a smart move following the install of the last pieces [​IMG]
    Changeling, May 30, 2017
     
  17. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    johnjen

    atomicbob said:
    "The IVS system total performance exceeds a simple summation of the system components, including DAC, amp, headphones. The resulting immersion does provide an absorbing distraction that I find often interfering with multitasking. Shutting down several of the IVS software components, lowering the sound level and playing chewing gum music helps."

    I think for me all it would take is the bubblegum music.

    JJ [​IMG]
    johnjen, May 30, 2017
     
  18. JeffYoung

    JeffYoung Friend

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    @JeffYoung

    johnjen said:
    "I think for me all it would take is the bubblegum music."

    My daughter has a Barbie CD I'd be happy to loan you....
    JeffYoung, May 31, 2017
     
  19. CEE TEE

    CEE TEE MOT: NITSCH

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    johnjen

    hahahahahahahahahahahaha

    Yeah, for sure that'd do it, as well.
    Talk about lunging for the STOP button/volume control… [​IMG]

    JJ [​IMG]
    johnjen, May 31, 2017
     
  20. Scott Kramer

    Scott Kramer Friend

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