Lampizator Baltic-3 DAC Review

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by Maven86, Jun 18, 2022.

  1. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    Switched between the B3 and Yggdrasil A2 in my system for about a month. Was initially planning on letting this go after a week but a friend told me to hold it longer to give it a fair take. True enough, I started liking it a little more after swapping firmware on my DI20HE but most of the major hangups I initially had didn’t change.


    Just some scattershot impressions before moving to other things:

    Setup: iMac 2019--> AGD DI20HE + SR 10M Rubidium clock w/LPS --> (AES) Schiit Yggdrasil A2 --> Jenson input transformers 1:1 XLR to RCA --> Elekit TU-8900

    Headphones
    Utopia*
    HD580*
    HD650
    JAR650
    ADX5000
    Verite

    Speakers
    Omega 3 HO monitors

    ~90% of listening was done using the Omegas, Utopia, and HD580. I also considered these to be the best pairings in this system.




    Nothing really special in terms of features. However, I did find the switch for the output voltage useful (2V vs 6V). This comes in handy if you happen to have an amplifier with lower gain than normal, such as my 801A. It gives it more drive without having to resort to a pre-amp. USB performance was also solid. I’d say better than the Gen 5 in the A2 but I still preferred using SPDIF or AES from a separate source.

    It sounded decent with the stock tubes (Pavane 6sn7 “blue balls”, Sylvania grey plate 12BH7, RCA 5U4G) but was a little too laid back. Switched to Raytheon VT-231s and Marconi 12BH7 which gave things a bit more sparkle in the treble. Overall, the impact of tube rolling was noticeable but not as dramatic as other tube DACs I’ve tried (Abbas, Audionote ect.)

    On a scale from 1-10 with 5 being neutral and 10 being cold. The A2 would be a 4.5 and the B3 a 4. I’d describe the B3 sound signature as lively, midrange forward, somewhat warmer than neutral, with a moderate touch of bloom. The latter effect was similar to having something like a mild sepia filter turned on. This helped soften the edges of sibilant recordings but also somewhat exaggerated tonal colors. Compared to the A2, tones are slightly denser and more vivid but have less texture and variety. This is a pleasant sounding DAC but achieves this at the expense of some transparency.



    Very good resolution. Better than the A2 but not by much. Evident even with the B3’s more relaxed treble presentation.

    Soundstage is much wider than the A2 but less deep. Though images tended to be somewhat flat and lack some focus in comparison. To be fair, just about every other Delta Sigma DAC I’ve heard seems to have this issue, even the ones I’ve liked the Hydra Vox and M1SE.

    Separation is much better on the B3. It’s a lot easier to follow individual lines of music in complicated tracks like orchestra or certain types of EDM. While it has its perks, this can come across as somewhat monitor like and unnatural on certain tracks. For me this was very apparent when listening to live recordings, which sounded almost deconstructed. As if the different parts were a little too discrete and didn't harmonize well. A lot of the spatial information and ambient cues that contribute to a “you are there” feeling, were lost or presented in a way that felt out of place.

    In terms of macrodynamics, transient edges are more blunt. They lack the edge and precision of the A2 but have more speed and impact. Despite having a tube stage, this isn’t a slow DAC by any means, and faster tracks like EDM or metal never felt congested even when things got crazy. Overall, I’d say it hits harder and has more “slam” than the A2.

    Microdynamics were good but were noticeably better on the Yggdrasil. Not surprising as this is one its strongest areas IMO.

    Bass sounds more extended, hits harder and faster, yet still with a good sense of control. Though it doesn’t quite articulate the lower frequencies as well as the A2, which seems to have better pitch differentiation (despite not going as low). I wouldn’t go as far saying the B3 has 1 note bass. There’s certainly nuance, just somewhat less of it. That being said, I actually preferred the bass presentation of the B3 on most modern music I listened to.


    Despite being enjoyable, there was some odd mix of unnaturalness in timbre and the way the B3 resolved transients, that made acoustic music sound a little synthetic. For instance guitars had a somewhat plastic tone, attacks on the violin were too rounded and lacked that last bit of “grit” and roughness. However, biggest gripe I had was its tendency to homogenize recordings and present them all in a very similar way (relative to the A2).

    I’m a believer that virtually all DACs add their own coloration or flavor to the sound, the A2 is no exception. However, I feel like the latter at least gives me the illusion that there’s diversity in my recordings. Some tracks sound shrill, others rolled off. Soundstage, placement, and spacial cues can vary significantly between recordings, especially live ones. You get a much better feeling of the room. The tonal colors aren’t as saturated (rich) but there’s more variety to them, and it’s easier to notice the changes from album to album. Things don’t always sound as pleasant on the A2 but they sound more “honest”. On the B3, its almost as if my my music collection was forced to have a uniform policy.


    In the month that I had the B3, I never got any of those “oh shit” moments with my music, or stop and wonder if sounds were coming from the speakers or somewhere else. Nothing ever sounded natural, lifelike, or “real”, at least in my setup. One notable example was when listening to the the Civil Wars album “Live at Eddies Attic”. On a good setup, you hear a lot ambient details in the recording (done live in a bar), like wait staff tending tables, small conversations, the sound of glasses clinking ect..

    The B3 renders all these details without breaking a sweat. Nothing seems left out or obscure. In fact, I’d say it's easier to hear more of these macro-details on the B3 vs the A2. However, it’s presented in a way that’s flat and less cohesive, with more emphasis on the individual components over the whole.

    The person washing dishes, and the couple chatting 3 tables down is highlighted as much as the performers, almost to the point of being distracting. On top of that, little things like jackets rustling, chairs scratching against the hardwood floor, or the subtle chatter in the background just lack that last bit of micro-dynamic nuance and timbral accuracy to sound convincing. I’m nit picking for sure but a lot of these little things add up. While they never become glaring issues, they do impact that overall sense of realism and the feeling of being “present” in the room.


    Overall, I found the Yggdrasil to be a better fit in my system. Though the B3 was solid I couldn’t quite love it. It was no slouch in terms of technical performance, and on certain tracks definitely had that quality where I caught myself grinning and bobbing my head. However, the other trade-offs were a little too much for me, even when ignoring the substantial price difference between the two.
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Cut from other thread because this has substance.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Do you know what's the engine, the DA chip, or whatever is in there, for the Baltic 3?

    From your description, it sounds like the the Baltic 3 is technically better in almost every way but that the Yggdrasil A2 had the "X" factor. Did the Baltic 3 exhibit any sibilance? Impressed by the Lampi's in the past, the tube always stages sound mighty good (Yggdrasil beating Baltic 3 in microdynamics is a surprise), except there was always a bit of sibilance (delta-sigma gremlins).
     
  4. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    I believe it's a new DS engine dubbed "Engine 53". Don't know whether this solution uses an off the shelf chip but the few descriptions seem to suggest it may be a proprietary design. If memory serves me right, their old R2R engine used ladder modules from Soekris.

    Regarding microdynamics, it might be the octal tube stage that holds the B3 back. FWIW, I also got to hear the more expensive GG 2 that also uses engine 53 and IMO, they weren't close despite impressions I've read, especially with respect to microdynamics. Not sure where exactly the secret sauce lies but if I had to guess, the DHT output stage really helps... That being said, like the B3, that delta sigma edge never quite went away but it wasn't as noticeable. Maybe because everything else sounded so damn good.
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    LOL, he's being coy about the DA. I had no idea they used Soekris at one point. I would assume it was Soekris' prior line of R2R DACs and not the current one which is a good step above. It would have been killer for Lampi to use today's Soekris DAC2541. However, I actually kind of think that Lampi prefers the delta-sigma sound because there does seem to be a consistency to Lampi's house sound toward this.

    Golden Gate 2 is SE DHT - that's pretty nuts. They don't have much gain, so I guess they can be used a kind of a "buffer" (not a real one since there is some gain) for the output stage. Maybe the GG2 has a simpler output stage. Baltic 3 uses two different tubes types per channel no? Would be curious about topology, how they are getting both SE and BAL outputs, if they are using transformers.
     
  6. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    Definitely would be interesting to see an R2R engine using the 2541 modules but it's like you said, I think Lukas (of Lampi) prefers the newer delta sigma designs. I'd also bet money they're probably cheaper to implement and easier to market (e.g support for absurdly high sample rates and DSD XXXX).

    Yup, the B3 uses both 6sn7 and 12BH7 per channel. I haven't opened up the B3 but my guess is that they get balanced via output transformers while the SE outs use a separate path with cap coupling.
     
  7. penguins

    penguins Friend, formerly known as fp627

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    For what very little this is worth, I heard one of these in a system I had 0 familiarity with a week or so ago at THE Show in Long Beach. By unfamiliar, I didn't see the interface or source and I didn't know the any of the tubes or cables in the chain, the amp, or the speakers. It was also all done in a hotel room with 0 room treatment, beds removed, and a bunch of chairs in the room. Was also told the venue had pretty dirty / bad power. - i.e. not ideal.

    Reading through this, I do agree with 1) a little bit synthetic / nothing natural, lifelike or real, 2) transients felt a little rounded or lazy, 3) shows a lot of detail, and 4) "better in many ways but no X factor".

    The other items I cannot comment on as I either wasn't in the room long enough (ex album changes) or I really have no idea if it was the rest of the chain (ex the 4/10 warm part).



    On a different note - the fact that Lampi used to use a "Soekris engine" - for those of you who can comment, how prevalent is stuff like this in the "DAC world"?

    My experience with most individual DACs I've heard that are discussed on most headphone oriented sites do have their own sound signature aside from ASR which I cannot comment on as I have only listened to a few of the DACs discussed there and universally disliked them very quickly. However, during this entire show last weekend, most of the setups with DACs sounded much more similar to each other than different. The same could be said for some other shows / stores / places I've been to that are speaker oriented. Is this because of the DACs or the speakers?
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2022
  8. EagleWings

    EagleWings Friend

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    In the last 2 years, I came across at least a couple of DACs that used a Soekris board and charged a premium for a pretty chassis and and an LPS. Just not able to recall all the names. Here is another brand from Poland that uses the Soekris board for their DACs.

    https://www.acuhorn.pl/acuhorn-R2RXT.htm
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2022
  9. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    The LessLoss Echo's End Reference used (uses?) Soerkis boards, if I recall correctly. Was essentially Soerkis boards surrounded by LessLoss passive tweaks/resonance stuff/audiophile wire and bespoke LPS. $20k or something really up there, last time I looked.

    Edit: here's a pic from 6moons. Yep, Soerkis:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    Funny you mention them. If every works out, I should have a unit to audition sometime next week.
     
  11. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

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    All that effort and cost putting four 300B on the output, and I'd bet my left nut it would sound better taking the output directly/unbuffered from the R2R ladder.

    And the $20k for the LessLoss? Yeah, the less said about that the better......
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Dang x4 300B. With WE, that's $3k already. Not sure Roman Abramovich has the funds for this kind of stuff anymore.
     
  13. Maven86

    Maven86 Almost "Made"

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    There's a switch to change the heater voltage so it also takes 45, PX4, and 2a3. I think you can also use two tubes instead of 4 if running in SE mode.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022

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