Best amps for orthos

I am using the 8900 off the speaker taps with the Susvaras and 1266TC. I feel they don't drive the Susvaras well enough (in comparison the Studio T does a better job). The 1266 sounds great, the 300Bs help with the leaner mids.

 

This shouldn’t have been posted in this thread(removed).

 

I have to add an amp to this list: Kinki Audio Studio THR-1 (link below):

https://www.kinki-studio.com/thr-1

This amp absolutely kicks ass with my Final D8000 (borderline miraculous sound, the best of all my SS amps); and ZMF Ori (sound at least as good as w/any other SS amp). Overall, the sound is slightly warm; above average dynamics & bass; and a rather beautiful, ear-friendly but extended treble, maybe the best I've ever heard from a SS amp (I have 6).

It's compact, relatively affordable (new @$1,200 incl. shipping); uber-powerful (insane power); has SE+balanced inputs and balanced output for preamp.

I've had mine 3-4 months; burned it in 300+ hrs per mfr recommendation. I love the sound on headphones but had less success w/the preamp out (it's balanced only so I have to use balanced-to-RCA adapters). Because I got this in large part to use as a system preamp, I'll probably sell it. Then again, I'm on the fence because the sound is so good w/headphones.

Anyone who buys one of these will wrestle with the amp's primary issue: too much gain (no lower gain settings available). In most real-world systems that means you'll need either a DAC w/volume control; a passive volume controller of some kind; or a pair of -10 dB attenuators (RCA). I've tried the 2nd & 3rd and both work well.

I regard this amp as a somewhat flawed design (no gain settings or SE output), but powerful as all hell and very good sound w/headphones.

 

This thread needs some life breathed into it!

I've tried many amplifiers now, and would really like to find a tube amp that can drive the large driver Audeze LCD's well. So far every tube amp causes recessed, hazy vocals despite all the good things that tubes bring to the table. The LCD-5 doesn't suffer from this and sounds great out of my Liquid Glass.

Any ideas for tube amps to try?

I've tried an Eddie Current S7 highly modded (I sold it to @CEE TEE and he says he prefers it to his balancing act so a very good amp)
Zen Decware Taboo mkIV
Liquid Glass
I can't remember which others.

A couple I'd love to hear (if I could afford them which is questionable) are:

Felix Envy, which is transformer coupled and supposed to do well with orthos
Pathos InPol Ear Reference, which is a class A hybrid and recommended by Upscale Audio

Both are insanely expensive and brand new so not likely to be found used. There must be some more options though that would really grab my LCD-4 by the balls with the magic of tubes.

I just randomly bought the RAAL PDT-1a because the price seemed right but then I realized it's OTL so not likely to play well with Audeze's even though RAAL says it's made for orthos and dynamics. Since their SS amp didn't beat the LauX I'm doubtful it will either but it was an impulse purchase. Damn buy it now button on Audiogon.

 

Surprisingly, the K9 Pro has been a great amp for orthos. I wasn't getting the glare/brightness I got from the Hel 2E and the bass was hitting hard. That said, it still has some of the THX issues (a bit flatter than I like,) but the chips FiiO custom are a lot better than THX's normal shit.

Though, if you don't need an AIO or the dac, I wouldn't both honestly.

 

That Pathos looks great, will have to check it out. A hybrid option I've been considering is the Paltauf HPA-100. Wonder if anybody has experience with that one?

RD, did you try the SR1/ribbon output with your headphones (using an adapter)? That seems to have a ton more power than the regular 4-pin XLR.

 

I've heard many people claim that the Woo WA33 drives the Susvara with authority. So I would presume it will do a good job with the LCD4. But the same caveat applies here: it's as expensive as the Envy.

Another hybrid that seems to be popular amongst the Susvara crowd is the Riviera AIC-10. But we are entering 5 fig prices now.

 

Can I suggest the Ultrasonic Oblivion? The Oblivion is so-so with dynamic headphones but I feel it's MUCH better optimized for low impedance planars. I really like the Oblivion and Diana TC combo.

Hmm... I think the only potential issue is Oblivion definitely doesn't sound like a "classical" SET tube amp, it leans more towards the solid state direction but still with that added lushness and sweetness to mid and very wide staging.

 

Does 420mW into 50 ohms give enough headroom?

 

If you're concerned about the bass performance I think there will be more amps better it there. The Oblivion excel at speed and imaging of SS but with the slight tube sweetness and staging. The overall tone of this amp is slightly lean.

I second @JeremiahS that this amp is better for orthos, my HE1000se scale way way higher on this amp than my Verite open compared to budget stuff.

 

IMHO it's not about pure power but there is some special synergy of Oblivion and low impedance headphones, planars in particular. For more power I think the designer has the Citadel model that has fully balanced input stage and different power tube than the Oblivion but it's more expensive and probably not needed unless you plan to drive Susvara or 1266 TC.

I thought the Oblivion is interesting because most tube amps don't do well with low impedance power hungry planars.

 

There's very little info about them, but ECP Audio Copenhagen-V (tubes) or Copenhagen S (sand/transistors) seem to be really solid options:

https://www.head-case.org/forums/topic/9980-ecp-audio/?do=findComment&comment=788170

"The Copenhagen is a differential cascode circuit. The Copenhagen V uses tubes (valves) for the upper device, while the Copenhagen S uses transistors (sand). They are otherwise just about the same. It does indeed use input and output transformers (amorphous Lundahls in both cases, though the inputs can use mu metal instead). The tubes (E81L's) need not be matched at all.

It is what is often called a "transconductance amp". In essence, it uses the headphone's impedance as an I/V converter, and it takes advantage of the slight Sennheiser impedance bump to make it a bit more euphonic. When used with Senns, I'd describe the sound as happy and punchy (kind of making them sound like how Grados would sound if they were not grating) - some people hate it, others love it, but it definitely has a sound. It can be linearized with the addition of some parallel resistance on the output (this is what a triode amp does except the parallel load is the tube plate impedance). Without doing that, it is not great with the Focals. Even with, they are so poorly damped that it would not be my first choice for powering them. With phones that have a flat impedance, it is pretty neutral. It's not an amp for everyone (definitely not for the objectivist crowd), but it is my favorite these days - I use a Copenhagen S with 650's for most pleasure listening."

@dsavitsk If you don't mind me asking, how much does a Copenhagen amp costs and is it a solid option for planar headphones? It should be an excellent pairing due to it being a transconductance amp (even if it was made with Sennheisers and Grados in mind), but I'm very interested in hearing from you on it. Can any of them drive properly a hard to drive planar, like the Susvara?

 

I recently bought an Ultrasonic Studios Oblivion to check out. I can post some brief impressions, all with Audeze headphones.

Keep in mind, this Oblivion has upgraded caps and I believe NOS tubes.

Pi2AES -> Yggdrasil -> amps -> modded Audeze's (but these impressions will apply to stock Audeze's as well)

Oblivion vs Liquid Gold X

1. The Oblivion has a bigger soundstage
2. A smoother tone while not being overly euphonic, not mushy at all
3. I read the impressions thread here and everyone called the Oblivion “bassy” using electrodynamics. It’s not bassy at all with Audeze’s it’s very well balanced. Bass quality is very very good. Tons of thump and slam and texture.
4. No recessed vocal range like most tube amps with Audeze large driver orthos
5. Oblivion has loud hum with the sensitive Audeze's like the LCD-X, LCD-4z and LCD-MX4 and a very slight hum with the LCD-4 even
6. Less dynamic than the LauX
7. Transients are softer than the LauX
8. It's less resolving and clear sounding than the LauX
9. Sounds like it has less grip on the drivers than the Laux
10. Overall I prefer the LauX but miss the smoother tone of the Oblivion

Oblivion vs Liquid Glass with Sylvania Bad Boy tubes

1. Liquid Glass is basically just better in every way with no hum
2. Better attacks, sharper transients, better more realistic tone, more juicy micro detail, better sense of control of the drivers.
3. This is tube dependent, there are plenty of tubes that would make the amps sort of on a level playing field, but this is one of the advantages of the glass, it can take sooo many tube types, while the Oblivion has very limited options, I can't find hardly any NOS tubes for it.

 

The short answers are I don't know, and I don't know. Due to parts becoming scarce, and suppliers being gone, everything needs to be redesigned. As of now, I am unsure whether, and in what form, a Copenhagen might return. As for orthos, theoretically it is a good pairing, but I have not heard it.

 

Somewhat surprised to find that I prefer my LCD-2F through a BHA-1 than through a DNA Starlett or even EC Studio Jr. Probably b/c BHA-1 just has more power. It really cleans up the bass and broadens the soundstage nicely.

I'm probably in the minority in really liking my LCD-2F. Or, rather, it is specifically extremely good with electronic music and synth bass lines. It makes those bass notes sort of purr or growl in a way that not even the HE6SE can manage. Somehow or other it really nails the texture and fine detail of a certain frequency range.

The BHA-1 does not quite measure up to the Starlett or Studio Jr. with the likes of HD800, however, so it's a bit of specialty amp, too. Wondering if something like the SPL Phonitor could bring similar joy with the Audeze.

 

In my experience with planars (owned a bunch; currently ZMF Ori & Final D8000), these often don't play by the same amping rules as dynamic headphones. Even though a given planar will have sufficient sensitivity and low impedance to (theoretically) work well on any amp, it'll probably sound better on a good solid state amp. It may have to do with damping factor (those planar drivers need a strong/consistent push to really move) or something else, but I've never heard any planar sound better on tubes than SS.

Some transformer coupled tube amps get awfully close to SS w/planars, but still not quite there. I heard my Ori on a friends Starlett and was impressed. But I'd never abandon my Violectric V281 or 1-2 other SS for a Starlett

PS: I had a vintage pre-fazor LCD-2.1. I also had an LCD-2F IMS for a couple weeks' loan. I found both to be solid (but not exceptional) all-rounders. They were better on music w/a strong beat, but acquitted themselves pretty well on acoustic, classical, etc. The bass with both headphones had a nice helping of that nice weight/texture only planars give.

 

That all sounds about right to me @Pharmaboy

I've certainly heard/read that planars like SS amps, but somehow never got around to a proper comparison to tubes. Totally agree that the LCD-2 are solid but not standout cans. For anything but electronic music, I go for the HD800, but the Audeze really shine in heft and texture down low.

Interestingly, I've been able to compare, with my own amps, my LCD-2F to... a pre-fazor LCD-2, LDC-2 Classic, and LCD-X and ended up preferring the LCD-2F. Go figure. Maybe I've got a unicorn pair or something. Probably not, but I know there's some variability.

Gah. I maybe need to get a Phonitor back in here. Was thinking of selling the BHA-1, but it's damned good with Audeze.

 

You don't need to spend huge bucks to get a SS amp that does well with planars. You may not even need to sell your BHA-1.

You can get the Monoprice Liquid Gold X for $750 at the moment (I got it on sale for $799). This is not a high class, ethereal sound quality amp. The onboard DAC is rightly ignored by everyone; the construction quality is so-so; and the lack of a lower gain setting is inconvenient as hell. BUT...this amp really kills on both my planars. It equals the V281, top to bottom, which few amps I've had here can do.

The LGX doesn't care much for my dynamic headphones, which I can't figure out. But for planars, it really gets the job done.

PS: It sounds like you have a unicorn 2F. These things happen w/Audeze. Unit-to-unit consistency never was very good w/the ones I've had, though for all I know it got better w/more recently TOTL designs.

 

Yeah, good point. I need to pull out my Monolith Liquid Platinum (another one I've been thinking of culling) and see how it stacks up to the BHA-1. I've been trying to pare down to just the Starlett and the EC Studio Jr and HD800/HD600, but don't seem to be getting there. I like the LCD-2F too much as a change-up.

My best pairing with the HE6SE has been an old-ish Peachtree Decco 2 integrated. Sounds better than dual Aegirs even. But on speakers (Klipsch Forte III and KEF LS50), I don't much care for the Decco. The weirdness of planars preferring power to almost anything maybe....

Thanks for the tip on the LGX.

My LCD-2F are bulky as shit and not particularly comfortable, but they do what do they very well, and selling them for a couple hundred bucks or whatever doesn't seem worth it.

This is how one ends up hoarding no doubt.

 

GUILTY AS CHARGED!