Best amps for orthos

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by rhythmdevils, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. joch

    joch Friend

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    Pasting the below from the Pathos Inpol thread on Audeze pairings
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-amplifier-review-and-discussion.12470/page-2


    My own addition:

     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
  2. Failed Engineer

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    As far as the 3F I think the impedance is the bigger problem WRT low impedance planars. I believe it's 5 ohm which is too high for a lot of Audeze and recent planars which are tending to lower impedances. I thought the D8000 Pro was pretty damn good on the 3F.

    I know the general opinion of Gilmore amps here but I think the CFA3 is really good with every planar I've thrown at it, maybe overkill in terms of power for headphones. The footprint of the amp is super annoying to me though as a headphone only guy.
     
  3. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    I think the traditional SS class A amps from Dr. Gilmore and Ti Kan AMB generally do well with low impedance planars. Is there a bad opinion on Gimore amps in this forum?
     
  4. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I had a Gilmore and found it sterile and boring. I think a number of other members here share a similar opinion.
     
  5. joch

    joch Friend

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    I enjoy the GSX mini which is supposed to be less cold than the more expensive mk2. A consideration is the upstream interactions. The DAC and the transport have some effect. I once had the wrong setting on Moode(?) and the music played but it was off, like veiled and tired. Also a cool DAC might mesh better with a warm amp, and vice verse.
     
  6. Pharmaboy

    Pharmaboy Friend

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    The only Gilmore amp I ever spend time with was the headamp. The first time I ever heard the then-launching Meze Empyrean was on the headamp in the Gilmore booth at CanJam NYC. I really liked that combo.

    Only a sample of one, but I'm guessing the Headamp does well with planars...
     
  7. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Pulled out a couple of other amps I'm planning to sell--Jotunheim 1 and Monolith Liquid Platinum--just to see how they do with the LCD-2F.

    Jot 1: A very clean amp. Good speed, good bass, good detail. It's just a bit steely sounding and, as many have noted, has a very flat stage.

    Liquid Platinum (with stock tubes): It's solid in its price range. Interestingly, it's rather darker than I recalled. Plenty of bass and a surprising amount of sub-bass. The tubes give it a decent sense of a 3D head stage. But it doesn't have the control and sense of order that the BHA-1 brings.

    Comparing the Liquid Platinum to the BHA-1, I actually wanted for a touch more sub-bass from the Bryston.

    I'd still like to get a Phonitor back in. I recall it being very detailed, a la the Jot 1, but with a nicer tonality.
     
  8. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

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    I've been meaning to post impressions of the Mjolnir 1, which I've owned now for several months. I realize @rhythmdevils excluded it from his list of recommended amps for Audeze headphones, and I can totally see why he did. I wasn't a fan of it with the LCD-4, for example, and I agree with him about the Mjolnir 1 generally being a poor fit for Audeze headphones. I don't mean to contradict him but, with several strong caveats and for very specific purposes, I've found it to be a glorious amp for my LCD-2 Classic. I've not heard an LCD-2F in ages and never in my own system, so I don't know how well my findings with the 2 Classic will translate. But I hope the following may be of interest.

    Again, let me emphasize that I'm using my LCD-2C and the MJ1 for specific purposes, namely to listen to alternative rock and some electronic music. These headphones are very forgiving of poorly recorded or mastered rock music and they have the great advantage of not being in the least bit fatiguing. The Classic, when amped properly (and they love juice), are great fun: you get decent enough (if slightly loose) and satisfying bass, lots of slam, a wonderful percussiveness and impact, generally, and excellent macro-dynamic strength. Best of all, electric guitars sound great from these headphones. They have decent enough bite - this isn't their strong suit - but they do powerchords magnificently, and they have gloriously rich texture, especially for the crunch and growl and grit and fluttery rumble of electric guitars. I've yet to find a headphone that bests the LCD-2 Classic for these latter qualities, and not all amps do these headphones proper justice, especially when it comes to slam. I also find that the 2 Classic suffer from being congested, constrained, and too feeble when not amped properly. This is an obvious point, of course, but the headphones do scale considerably - again, for these purposes - with the right amp.

    I'll give you an example. When I was on the Jot 2 loaner, the LCD-2 Classic snapped into place nicely for me. I thought I'd found the ideal amp for these headphones as it did pretty much everything I wanted. After I purchased a MJ1, thanks to @Azimuth and his excellent posts on the qualities of this amp, I decided to buy a Jot 2 to compare the two to see if my memory of the Jot 2 lived up to reality (it did) and to see if it was better than the MJ1 (it was not).

    Here are my findings. I'm sorry, I need to get on with work so I'll just post my listening notes for now (I'll post a proper set of impressions of the MJ1 in its own thread soon). You'll get the gist of my impressions quickly enough from the notes below, and for the tl;dr you can skip to the conclusion at the end. I hope it helps.


    Bifrost 2 -> Jotunheim 2 high gain vs Mjolnir 1, both balanced all the way -> LCD-2 Classic

    [edit: forgot to mention I was using the Reveal Plugin]


    The Stone Roses, Driving South
    Jot: sounds a bit flat; not much impact with percussion; guitar line is clear and nice; no slam.
    MJ1: better resolution; more open sounding, with better separation and imaging and layering; more percussive but not by very much; not as warm-sounding; less congested; up-front presentation.

    Protomartyr, Half Sister
    Jot: again, not enough punch to drums; sounds a bit flat and dull; not very nimble, when the guitar is strummed harder, you don’t sense or feel it very much; not much of a blast to the crescendo; vocal is quite forward; cymbals almost absent; guitars have nice tone and texture but not very strong.
    MJ1: cymbals more present; better separation and imaging; guitar still not very percussive but appreciably better at picking up on the stronger strumming; vocal less forward; more open-sounding.

    PJ Harvey, Meet Ze Monsta
    Jot: clean, clear, well articulated sound; great texture; sound is a bit flat, not as dynamic as I’d like it to be.
    MJ1: better vocal, more forward; much better separation; more open sound, less constrained; guitar texture is as good as Jot, maybe, hard to say; faster - doesn’t seem to plod as much as the Jot. Better macrodynamics.

    Blur, Death of a Party
    Jot: lots of crunch, a bit warmer and congested; organ not too forward; lacks punch; ok growl to guitar in the background; vocal not very forward. Again, not the most slam or macrodynamic strength.
    MJ1: much better guitar crunch; much more open, clear, better separated sound; organ more forward, which is a good thing, as is vocal; background guitar crunch is better. This is far superior.

    Terminal Cheesecake, Poultice
    Jot: not very spacious re. instrument separation; a bit closed in, if not quite congested; a bit muddy; staging not the widest; definition, i.e. how clear each instrument sounds, isn’t very good; not much slam or macrodynamic heft; a bit fatiguing with the higher-frequency guitar line; maybe the low end isn’t strong enough, hence the lack of dynamics? It’s hard to make out the left-channel guitar or the bass.
    MJ1: much better macrodynamics and better definition and articulation to the guitars; the left-channel one is more apparent; both stand out more clearly, it’s easier to follow both of their lines through the song; drums are more percussive; the higher-frequency guitar wails better. Much more visceral and exciting overall presentation, more spacious and fun and engaging.

    Monolord, Empress Rising (instrumental version), thanks to @rhythmdevils for introducing me to this great track
    Jot: ok, much better - this track’s much more percussive than the previous ones, it sounds really good (is it how it's recorded?); pretty impactful but the MJ1 is more so from memory, and I’m not sure the macrodynamic contrast is there; the guitars sound awesome, lovely texture, nicely separated.
    MJ1: much more resolution, much more open staging - it sounds vast - and, holy cow, massive macrodynamic contrast, the guitars really blast at you, it’s a pounding, exhilarating listen.

    Radiohead, The National Anthem
    Jot: bass isn’t the strongest, actually quite weak; cymbals ok; ondes martenot not as prominent as it could be.
    MJ1: bass is a bit stronger but not by much; the ondes martenot is much more pronounced; the staging is wider and more open, there’s more space for the sound, making imaging and separation much better; more precise; more detailed; better clarity; handles the complex passages with brass much better. Bigger, more massive and fun sound.

    Hans Zimmer, 2049 (first track on the Blade Runner 2049 soundtrack)
    Jot: quite weak opening hit, not metallic but not much oomph to it; percussiveness is pretty feeble; nice texture to bass but not much oomph or rumble to it; treble is ok, nothing special.
    MJ1: still slightly weak opening hit, a bit more percussive; sparklier treble, bass is a bit stronger; a bit more rumble; treble is a bit more forward. Better, then, but not great.

    Massive Attack, Man Next Door
    Jot: sub-bass is ok; no wince-inducing percussion; not great layering or macrodynamic contrast, a bit flat.
    MJ1: sub-bass about the same, mid-bass a bit more emphasized; better sense of space and openness.

    Nicolas Jaar, Space Is Only Noise If You Can See
    Jot: bass is ok, fairly strong and deep; not the best layering or separation; staging is quite compact.
    MJ1: more space and better echo around vocals; better separation; bass is a bit richer, better textured, more emphasized, less congested and more airy and spacious, about the same sub-bass.

    Trentemøller, Chameleon
    Jot: does a decent job with sub-bass extension and strength - actually very good. Imaging and separation are very good, too. This track sounds excellent.
    MJ1: not too different; sub-bass is about the same; better imaging, perhaps, a bit more 3D, with more height. Otherwise pretty similar.


    Overall impressions
    Mjolnir 1 leaves the Jot 2 in the dust. It’s far more engaging and exciting, exhilarating even, with much greater slam and impact, far stronger macrodynamics; better imaging and separation, with a larger, more open and spacious staging. The Jot 2 by contrast is dull, flat, unengaging, a bit constrained - if not congested. Both render guitar textures well but the MJ1 is better here, too, if only because of the higher resolution and better defined/articulated sound. The MJ1 is so much more engaging that I just carried on listening to test tracks.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
  9. TamHo

    TamHo New

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    May I ask if your Mjolnir 1 was modified? I cannot imagine the Jotunheim 2 is that bad because the MJ1 was one of the worst amp that I have used for my LCD2 rev2. That amp turned my LCD2 rev2 to a very bloated bassy and unnatural timbred headphone.
     
  10. Tchoupitoulas

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    No, not to my knowledge.

    I'm probably emphasizing the differences for illustrative purposes to a certain extent, but the differences were readily apparent, consistent, and quite significant - enough that I promptly returned the Jot 2.

    Please note that I'm speaking specifically to the quality of the Jot 2 with only these headphones and with the specific music I mentioned. And please also note my comment: "When I was on the Jot 2 loaner, the LCD-2 Classic snapped into place nicely for me. I thought I'd found the ideal amp for these headphones as it did pretty much everything I wanted." The contrast with the MJ1 is comparative, then, and in isolation, I liked the Jot 2 well enough.

    I wouldn't call the bass bloated, necessarily, but it's certainly not tight or well defined. I'd call it loose and floppy. Baggy, maybe. If by bloated you mean excessively thick and strong, I'd agree that it's more emphasized than a neutral tuning.

    Again, please note the music I'm referring to. I'm not sure there's a natural timbre to the instruments in the above pieces of music. Beyond vocals and drums, there aren't really any acoustic instruments in the tracks I mentioned (i.e. not having electrical amplification), and I should think that the electric guitars, for instance, have been processed significantly by effects pedals and in the mastering process. I don't know what the control (or ground) sound of these instruments would be to determine if their timbre is accurate or correct. Also, the LCD-2 Classic aren't the right headphones for correct timbre in the first place. I don't use these headphones for strings, brass, woodwind, piano, etc..
     
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  11. lagadu

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    Having had it for a couple months now, I'm extremely enamoured with the Ferrum Oor powering my LCD-4z (2021 pads) and I find it to be a far better pairing than with my Starlett. I'll post some proper impressions by summer's end once I've had it longer and have had time to sit down and write a bit but the difference isn't subtle at all.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2022
  12. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Think I need to get a Liquid Gold X in here to compare. Somehow missed the boat/threads on this one.

    @Pharmaboy you mentioned it can be had for $750? Thanks for pointing me toward that deal if still available. Everywhere seems to have it back up at $999. I'll keep an eye out for sales.
     
  13. Pharmaboy

    Pharmaboy Friend

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    Unfortunately that deal was over very quickly. Just checked and Monoprice has this amp up to full list ($999.99) which nobody should pay:

    https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=38967

    I'm no expert, but there may be a price tracker app that you could use to look for discounts on this amp. And there's always www.hifishark.com, the search aggregator tool that compiles any of these items F.S. from places like ebay, US AudioMart, Head-Fi, etc. It's showing nada for the LGX at the moment, but sooner or later it'll come up:

    www.hifishark.com

    (register, search for amp or anything else, then save search; new listings will be sent to you via email)
     
  14. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I have a pending sale on mine but if it doesn't pan out you can be first in line. I'm asking $500.
     
  15. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    For the record, @Tchoupitoulas is right here. As much slam the MJ1 has, it is still what I call a clinical amp. Maybe not as clinical as Ragnarock 1, but I can see it not playing well with certain orthos. Maybe better with HFM.

    I do know my preferred amp I owned with LCD2 Classic, was the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. It was not the best in resolving detail, but it gave the LCD 2’s what they needed - lotsa juice. It could handle EDM with ease and with quick electric guitar riffs, the same.
     
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  16. Armaegis

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    I have both the BHA-1 and the Phonitor 2 (and used to have the X). I primarily use the HE-6 which is a stupid reference but it is what it is. The BHA-1 has enough grunt for the HE-6, but the Phonitor 2 does not. The X is better, but still not enough. Probably fine for Audezes though. I only have the LCD-GX at the moment which is handled just dandy by both.

    I modded my BHA-1 to have low gain, but all my sources are hot so it's still enough to drive my HE-6 to reasonable though not head thrashing levels.
     
  17. Pharmaboy

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    Nice to see the Liquid Carbon mentioned here. I can't remember a headphone that didn't sound at least very good on my LC v2. Planars and dynamics alike, most sound very good on this amp. Sure, it's not the greatest resolution of all. But it's so well voiced, so musical, that I forget all about technicalities every time I listen to it.

    In fact, in the next night or two, I'll try my most resolving (yet still musical) headphone, the Final D8000, with the LC. That should be interesting.
     
  18. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    you flat out RULE for including Terminal Cheesecake in an official impressions listening session!
    going to dial up Angels in Pigtails tonight and recommend others lean into this under appreciate band.
     
  19. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    Okay, Liquid Gold X in house.

    Futzed around with it a little earlier, but need to get a bit more time (though I usually can form impressions pretty quick these days). My immediate sense is that @rhythmdevils is basically on the money with his review. It's a strong all-rounder with nothing jumping out as right or wrong. Highly listenable. Which, I think, means it's a little warm for a SS amp, but you wouldn't call it a warm amp, to quote @rhythmdevils (I think). Resolving but doesn't scream detail. Solid bass, but not a bass monster. Decently clear sub-bass.

    Ergonomics are a mild bummer. Odd power button that seems to want to stay pushed in but doesn't. Weird volume pot that takes a leap up in level around 10 o'clock. Dumb blinking white LED that just tells you what digital input is engaged. And it's kinda fugly.

    LCD-2F: Pretty good! I still feel that the BHA-1 is maybe better. I like the Bryston's wide head-stage, and also only the BHA-1 seems to be able to do the purr and squelch synth bass thing with the LCD-2F. I do think the Bryston is a little N-shaped in its response, and doesn't have as convincing or clear a sub-bass.

    HD800S: I'm not sure about this match. @purr1n might be right here, that the LGX isn't so hot with the Senn HDXXX phones. LGX just sounds a bit brittle and spiky on the HD800S. I need to revisit this, but the Starlett and even the HDVA600 (I find this amp under-rated, go figure, but I got it for next to nothing) are pretty obviously preferable with the HD800S.

    Focal Utopia: Also pretty solid with the LGX. However, I might still prefer the BHA-1 with the Utopia. And the Starlett is a whole other level. DNA just sublime with the Focal.


    In my search for a SS/Audeze specialist amp, I'm a little surprised to still be enjoying the Bryston so far, especially given how people seem to be enjoying the LGX with planars. Jury's still out. These are early impressions. And could be skewed by the fact that I like a wide head-stage. Sometimes headphones are too cloistered/relentless for me, so broadening things out is often pleasurable.

     
  20. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    Copied to this thread by rhythmdevils

    I also finally have a chance to try this amp at our local brick and mortar audio store. DAC used was the Hugo TT2 which is fairly neutral and let you easily judge the character of the amp. I'm mostly into orthos now so I tested it mainly with the Diana TC, HE6 SE and LCD-5 but we also had dynamics like ZMF headphones, Focal Utopia and old classic HD800S.

    [​IMG]

    My English is not very good so I'll summarize in bullet points...
    • First impression for a USD 3000 amp the build quality is a bit lacking refinement. The volume knob is a bit loose and not sure it shows in the photo, the HYPSOS and amp units have different colour white LEDs. The quality of finishing is also so-so.
    • The footprint is very small and compact.
    • In terms of sound it reminds me of a super refined THX-789 but without the sterility and flatness. I think this amp is tuned for people who like that kind of neutral sound.
    • There seems to be a "sweet" filter applied to the low treble / upper mid area. I think this can help with headphones that are a bit aggressive in this area like Diana TC and LCD-5. I like this a lot actually.
    • Also because of the above this amp is definitely in the polite sounding group.
    • Biggest weakness is staging. It's lacking in airiness and depth. Actually it kinds of remind me of the Jotunheim 2 in this regard although not as bad...
    • Biggest strength is the amount of drive and control for any headphone load combined with lack of noise and black background.
    • The OOR seems to have better synergy with orthos, like the UltraSonic Oblivion. I think if you have dynamics only there are plenty of other cheaper options like the GS-X Mini. It didn't play that well with any dynamic that we had at hand...
    • For comparisons with other SS amps, there were Burson Soloist 3X GT and GS-X Mini.
      • vs Burson GT: not as detailed or controlled, the GT has a greyish background compared to the OOR. However the GT is a lot more 3-dimensional sounding and there is slight warmth to its sound that I really like. Also the Burson has a more solid build quality and a bit cheaper as well.
      • vs GS-X Mini: I thought the HeadAmp is a better all-rounder since it does equally well with planars and dynamics but its power output is lower than the Burson GT and OOR. It can't drive super hard orthos like the Sus or AB1266 and is almost running out of juice with the HE-6 SE and Diana TC. As usual with Kevin Gilmore amps, it's all about dynamics and timbre, especially in the midrange. The OOR is noticeably more detailed but more polite.
    Overall I think the OOR and HYPSOS is quite a solid package that seems to do better with orthos than dynamics.
     

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