ZMF Earpads for HD6xx Series Headphones

Discussion in 'Modifications and Tweaks' started by E_Schaaf, Mar 31, 2022.

  1. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Thanks to RD and ZMF for organizing the loaner.

    I did take some pics and measurements for these earpads but seem to have lost them in my terribly mismanaged file storage. Apologies for that! If I can dig them up I'll update this post, but I'm sure others can fill in the gaps too. I only tested with a pair of stock HD6XX, since those are the most ubiquitous Sennheisers in use these days (as far as I can tell).

    In general, these were the first aftermarket Senn pads that I actually liked. I don't like the HE60 pads on the 600 series headphones even with mods. I find the Sennheiser 600/650/6xx/580 series is very picky about airflow through the earpads (and the stock pads are quite breathable). Too little airflow would bloat the bass, and the wrong size/shape messes up the midrange tone. Props to ZMF for having done their research regarding materials, perforations, shapes etc to not destroy the generally beloved character of the stock headphones. Onto more specific impressions:

    Comfort and ergonomics:

    These earpads are slightly thicker and stiffer than the stock pads, so anyone with overclamping issues on their headbands will probably need to bend their headband to accommodate the extra depth of these. The earpads themselves visually appear to be slightly 'too small' on the outer diameter for the size of the Sennheiser capsules, creating a small gap on the perimeter of the pad where the pads meet the housing. However, I have a feeling that this may be by design to improve airflow so that's not a real complaint - more of an observation.They mount easily and firmly using the provided plastic mount rings.

    One minor complaint is that the mounting rings tend to stick to the Senn capsules when the pads are removed, which requires something to wedge out the mounting ring so it's not stuck in place. Maybe there's a trick to it, but it makes rapid hot swapping difficult. However, I'm sure this is beyond the intended application for those who settle on one pad type longer-term. Each material was cozy against my head for longer term listening. Nice!

    Sonics:

    Generally all of these pads improved the continuity of the soundstage (more continuous left to right compared to 3-blob effect with similar total width). This is likely due to the angling of the pads. Additionally, each of these pads make the front baffle foam redundant (instead incorporating a more typical earpad hairscreen), which helps to slightly alleviate the sense of dynamic veil, and also mildly improves tactility in the bass despite similar ultimate extension and clarity in the lows. These are all things Sennheiser lovers have lusted after for some time, so I consider these qualities to be absolute victories. However, don't expect planar subsonic extension, HD800 staging, or Focal air / openness from swapping the pads. The Senns still show their inherent limitations.

    Perforated Leather:

    These were my favorite. Compared to the suede, they had slightly sharper attacks and a bit more vibrancy in the highs. The midbass emphasis is flattened out a smidge compared to the stock pads as well, but with similar extension down low. The bass feels a bit more focused and percussive, less diffused compared to the stock pads. The mids are slightly withdrawn in the ~2khz area compared to the stock earpads, but this is pretty innocuous given it's a broad and subtle difference, plus the fact that the reduced midbass quantity overshadows the midrange less. I could wish for a bit more presence there (many headphones have fairly deep 2khz dips so I doubt most people will notice this subtle change), but it wasn't bothersome or perpetually noticeable. I wouldn't say these pads necessarily brought more top octave energy or air to the sound compared to the stock earpads, but the increased sense of macrodynamic contrast versus the stock pads did make them more enjoyable to me. I'm not sure if these pads would jive with a modern production stock HD600 given how they changed the tone of the 6xx (less midbass and 2khz energy), but that's simply speculation on my part.

    Perforated Suede:

    Tonally, these were very similar to the perforated leather above, but with slightly less lively dynamic swings and a bit less perceived texture in the highest registers, giving them a slightly more polite and mellow sound from a comparative standpoint. I've always heard some sort of midrange coloration with suede pads and I do get that here to some extent (some people love this sound). However, I can't tell if it's something being added texture-wise in the mids or simply a matter of suede's greater absorptive properties in the highs vs leather. Despite this, I imagine maybe these pads would be a great synergy for a current production HD600 which lean slightly towards grain and sharpness in the highs with the stock earpads.

    Solid Leather:

    I wasn't a huge fan of these, though my general comments above regarding improved image continuity and tactility were still the case here. Tonally, they seemed to pitch down and slope the entire FR by several dB - which makes sense because of drastically reduced airflow vs all of the other pads.Thankfully, they didn't create any massive dips or peaks while doing so - so the tone was still mostly listenable. However, the more bass and low-mid forward presentation (to me) highlighted the greatest weakness of the Sennheiser 600 series headphone presentation (the lack of clarity and texture in the lows and the overly blended transition from the lows to the low mids). So it created a somewhat unflattering sound to my ears vs what the Senns are known to do well. Perhaps with a heavily mass loaded and aggressively modded HD600, or a JAR600 made from a current production unit, these would be more suitable. To be honest, I see more potential for these pads on non-Sennheiser headphones using oval earpads. As usual for ZMF the leather quality and craftsmanship are top notch.

    Concluding Thoughts:

    On that last point, perhaps the most exciting aspect to me with these earpads is the possibilities they open up for heavily modded Sennheisers. Many (including myself) have used Senn headphones as a platform to learn how headphone tuning works - investigating what types of changes affect various parts of the sound signature. In that regard, these earpads open up new doors which has re-ignited my desire to play with Senn headphones once again.

    TL'DR - these are the best aftermarket pads for Sennheiser headphones I've yet heard and directly address some of the sonic shortcomings of the Sennheiser 6xx-series headphones (in stock form) without dramatically changing their character. Despite my passion for mods, these pads offer a simple solution without requiring other modifications to sound great. I will likely be buying a set of the perforated leather variant and revisit my freakshow black screen HD600 for the occasion. Cool stuff, congrats to ZMF!
     
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    Last edited: Mar 31, 2022
  2. zach915m

    zach915m MOT: ZMF Headphones

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    Thank you for trying them! Appreciate the impressions!

    I may have forgotten to include it with the tour, I can't remember - but when you get these off our site they come with a plastic "spudger" to use to remove the plastic ring. I can send a couple out if these are still on tour.
     
  3. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Yeah, Ev was the first person on the tour. They are on their way to @wadec22 right now, so you could pm him and ship the spludger (I don't quite get what it is) to him :)
     
  4. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Thanks for the impressions. Reminded me I wanted to try these with BP800s, so I've ordered sets of perforated and suede. Will report back.
     
  5. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

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    I do indeed have them now. Arrived in perfect order from @E_Schaaf
     
  6. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

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    First, thanks to @zach915m and @rhythmdevils for the loaners. Since @E_Schaaf did such a great job covering the Sennheiser pads, I will just focus on the Beyer+ pads. I really enjoy a couple of the Beyerdynamic headphones with some EQ and I have measured a number of them so this was a lot of fun for me.

    [​IMG]


    Testing gear & notes
    • RME UCX II->Monoprice THX 887->miniDSP EARS
    • My measurements are done following miniDSP manual and recommended curve. I stick to my comfort zone to minimize variables. Obviously my measurements are only comparable to each other and void against anything else.

    Disclaimer
    • I've gotten pretty comfortable on the miniDSP EARS but I would certainly still consider myself a beginner with audio measurements in general.
    • I welcome any and all feedback in this area.
    Aesthetics and build
    • ZMF's Beyerdynamic pads are pretty darn nice, and that comes as no surprise. The coverings are very soft to the touch and feel fantastic.
    • Stitching on the coverings is of high standards. I can find no abnormalities. This is a big deal. Often manufacturers save some money here by having some relaxed tolerance for quality control. That does not appear to be the case here.
    • Zach's team is using lambskin as the only option here. It is very soft and breathes well against your skin. It is a good choice. Unfortunately, if you ware wanting an animal friendly covering, that is not currently an option.
    • ZMF has elected to use a non-memory foam fill in it's Beyer+ ear pads. This does make the ear pads feel less premium than some other high quality pads on the market. This has some positive and negative impacts on comfort. While they do not have that glorious, soft, ultra plush comfort sensation... They DO have less weight to them, making them feel lighter on the headphones and they breathe incredibly well. I however, doubt that comfort was the main concern for ZMF choosing the fill. My guess, is that Zach went with this fill as it best accommodates the frequency response he was after.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Beyerdynamic T1 Measurements

    The first headphones I tested these on were the Beyerdynamic T1 generation 1. This is an uncommon headphone now and it should be obvious that Zach's team most likely did not test and intended neither of these pads on this headphone - so the consequences are a slight roll of the dice. This particular unit was a new, old stock set that I managed to get my hands on, so the stock pads were like-new. The serial number is in the 16XXX range.
    This headphone at stock is like a super- DT880. It manages to have better bass extension with slightly more emphasis than a 880. The angled tesla drivers also create a substantially larger sound stage, with slightly better imaging. All is not superior however. There are some peaks around 6500hz and 8khz+ that cause some zing and tizzy effects. The build is nicer than a DT880. All-in-all it's a give and take. At the end of the day at stock and no EQ, I would prefer a DT880. With EQ, I would prefer the T1, gen 1 if the price delta was only about $300ish. All of that is personal preference that is probably not necessary here....

    [​IMG]

    This was a rather pleasant and unexpected surprise! Bass extension remains entirely intact, bass emphasis reduced ever so slightly, mids get a mild pull back and 8k to 10k received a very welcome taming! With the mids pulling back a touch, the bass emphasis seems identical. These pads are not only more comfortable than the stock pads but they are providing an outstanding equalization to the treble! The sound stage remains wonderfully intact, as does the imaging. The only real bummer is not the fault of ZMF. This headphone still exhibits some tizzyness and still needs EQ around that 6kmark to remedy it.

    So for kicks, I threw the solid pads on the T1 to see what would happen. ZMF recommends solid pads for closed headphones, so this pairing is NOT recommended. My measurements confirm just that. Don't do this. I tried the solid ear pads on all three headphones with the similar results. This was for science and hopefully helps you in wasting any funds out of pure curiosity. :)

    [​IMG]

    DT 1990 Measurements

    The Beyerdynamic DT 1990 is a good headphone with some significant flaws. It comes with Balanced pads and Analytical pads. The Analytical pads are my preference, as I use a passive filter to cut out a horrendous peak in the headphone. This pairing basically makes it a super 880 - which I really like. However the Balanced pads are more popular, as they provide a slightly more v-shaped response, naturally offsetting the treble spike. Personally I still need a passive filter or EQ, as that 8khz+ peak is extreme.

    [​IMG]

    This result was less exciting. Now I would guess that this headphone was also not tested by the ZMF team, but I do not know that. You can see we get a significant SPL reduction from the mids to through the sub bass. While the treble sees a welcome pull back, it is not enough to alleviate the significant flaw in Beyerdynamic's design. The perforated pads are now also pulling out the bass so much, the headphone sounds super lean and dead. At no fault of ZMF, this is not a recommended pairing. I rolled the dice on the solid version, that pairing was just as flawed as with the T1 so the headphone can not be "fixed" with a current offering from ZMF without some serious EQ.

    DT 880 Premium 250ohm Measurements

    ZMF has a great intro video for these pads with some measurements on the two most popular Beyerdynamic designs, the DT770 & DT990. The most popular omission here is the DT880, Beyerdynamic's semi-open headphone. I personally really enjoy the DT 880 and have tried and measured most versions.
    It still has too much treble emphasis for many, but I really enjoy it. Especially with broken-in ear pads and either a passive filter or a mild EQ taming around 8khz. Naturally, I was excited to see what the ZMF Beyer+ perforated pads did to the sound (the solid version again destroyed it as one would imagine).

    [​IMG]

    The sound change here is interesting. While bass and sub bass remain basically unchanged, there is a slight pull back in the mid frequencies and again some welcome treble curbing. The pull back in the mids, is in my experience, almost always present when changing almost any headphone to a thicker-than-stock pad. This is why I was eager to get the ZMF Beyerdynamic ear pads tested! Pulling the driver further from the ear tends to create that pull-back and often kills the sound signature of most headphones. The nice thing that the ZMF team has accomplished is a thicker pad with a larger ear opening and a very mild mid-suck out. Other manufacturer evidence suggests that is very hard to do and likely too countless hours and modifications to accomplish.

    My Final Thoughts

    Personally, I still prefer the stock pads. I rather enjoy the feel of the silver velour pads. However, these are made for people who want a larger ear cavity and/or deeper pads. ZMF provides that in spades and it appears on the 770/880/990 they do so while still providing a great sound.
    No doubt these are very high quality pads that have been meticulously measured and constructed. It's also nice they have such a universal fit. An easy recommend for headphone geeks who love to try different combos and DIY solutions.

    Thank you again for the loaner opportunity. I am very grateful!
     
  7. gixxerwimp

    gixxerwimp Professional tricycle rider

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    Impressions of the ZMF suede perf and leather perf pads with BP800 here:
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...-with-hd800s-drivers.9023/page-14#post-381537

    So far I've tried the suede perf with HD650M. My stock pads are moderately worn and angled out with dental cotton rolls. Mid-bass bump is drastically reduced, as well as overall bass bloom. There's a suck in the mids that makes vocals sound a bit thin. But overall there's a significant improvement in the weakest areas of the HD650 for me (bass), and minor tweaks with EQ can adjust the tonality to my preferences.

    Not sure I'll get around to trying the leather perf on the HD650M as I prefer them on the BP800 over the suede (getting the pads on and keeping them on BP800 is a minor PITA). Extrapolating from my BP800 impressions, the leather perf on HD650 might have even more mid suck than suede, which had more forward mids. If/when I do try them I'll report back.
     
  8. Tchoupitoulas

    Tchoupitoulas Friend

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    Loaner Impressions of the ZMF Pads

    This was a fun loaner tour of some cool products – thank you Zach, SBAF, and @rhythmdevils for making it happen and for letting me participate in it.

    Setup: Mac Mini M1 with Roon via USB –> Bifrost 2 (single ended) –> SW51+ –> HD 600.

    I did one set of comparisons directly between my stock Sennheiser pads – nicely worn in, not quite worn out – and each of the ZMF pads. Because the two pairs of perforated ZMF pads, lambskin and suede, were different to the stock pads in similar ways, I also compared them to each other.

    I very much liked all three pairs of pads. The two perforated ones are quite similar in sound – though each has its distinctive, if subtly different, characteristics – and while the solid ones have a family resemblance, being solid, they stand out for being bassier (more bassy?).


    Comfort
    All three pads are comfortable. I like the vertical sides to the pads, which make the HD 600 much more of a circum-aural pair of headphones: the pads actually go around the ears whereas the stock pads rest on the outer ear (specifically the helix), which makes them feel almost like on-ear headphones by comparison.

    The comfort of the ZMF pads is great apart from one inescapable issue: my ears touched their inside walls; in an ideal world, the opening in the pads would have been bigger, but of course the small size of the cups constrains the pads’ size. While this fit isn't uncomfortable and doesn't bother me much, the headphones don't quite “disappear.”


    Common Characteristics
    The most striking and distinguishing property of all three ZMF pads is the thin fabric across the central opening, i.e. the bit that covers the driver housing. This fabric is much less thick and dense than the foam used by Sennheiser. At a guess, and having read @rhythmdevils comments about modding Audezes, I’d chalk up several sonic differences to this thinner fabric:
    • the sound is much more transparent
      • the HD 600 sound veiled in comparison. I know, the whole veil thing is a cliché, but I’d never really thought of the HD 600 being all that veiled, having come to it from the comparatively blanketed HD 6XX. But the ZMF pads really do make for a striking difference here.
    • the treble shines through more clearly
    • and the resolution improves quite significantly
      • by “significantly” I mean it’s immediately apparent. No, the HD 600 don’t become the resolving beauties that are the HD 800 SDR. But they’re more resolving than I’ve heard them be before. Or maybe they’re brighter, and I’m mistaking this for more resolution. But I don’t think that’s the case.
    One last general comment before I discuss each pad in turn: switching back from the ZMF pads to the stock Sennheiser ones consistently makes the HD 600 sound darker. I prefer this darker tuning. But the stock pads, by comparison, have several disadvantages: the HD 600 now sounds muddier, more closed in, more muffled, less open and spacious, and with a less well defined sound. Note that these are just relative differences, not absolute qualities. And while stock pads make for a mellower listen, the ZMF ones offer more liveliness.


    Stock vs ZMF Lambskin Perforated

    The stock pads make for a darker, bassier sound
    • the bass is stronger, richer, and deeper but also a bit muddier and bloomier in direct comparison
      • the extra bass emphasis makes for more slam
      • you also get more rumble with the stock pads
    • the upper mids and treble are less emphasized and extended than with the ZMF pads
      • strings have less bite, as do electric guitars
      • vocals, especially female ones, are set back a bit in the mix
        • likewise Hammond organs
      • cymbals are less zingy, more muted with stock pads
    The ZMF pads, by comparison, make for a more lively, clear, clean, and brighter sound
    • the bass, being less emphasized and robust, struggles with bass-heavy tracks, especially electronic music
      • and you don’t get much slam
    • vocals, especially female ones, electric guitars, and Hammond organs are more forward
    • cymbals have more zing to their sound, and the decay of cymbal strikes has a nicer, more apparent shimmer to it
    • there’s a slight edge to the treble that can be fatiguing over time


    Stock vs. ZMF Suede Perforated
    These comparisons are much as the same as those for the lambskin pads. The stock pads still tilt the sound clockwise slightly, making the HD 600 darker, murkier, bassier, less bright and with less air, less fatiguing, mellower, and slightly less open-sounding.

    The ZMF Suede pads, by contrast, make the bass less pronounced and the overall tuning brighter. The sound is sharper, with more bite and edge. Vocals come up nicely. Male vocals are no longer recessed; female vocals verge on becoming the predominant feature of songs.

    Since both perforated pairs of ZMF pads sound quite similar when compared individually against the stock ones – in part, because of poor auditory memory – I decided to compare them directly to each other.


    ZMF Lambskin vs Suede Perforated
    I should qualify the following by noting that the differences between them are subtle enough that, by the time I got two or three tracks into the comparison, I lost a sense of what the other pair sounded like. It took quite a bit of concentration to note the differences. Also, across both of these pads, I found the differences in the presentation of the upper-mids and treble to be somewhat inconsistent, especially when it came to the forwardness of vocals, particularly female ones, and the bite of strings and electric guitars. Someone with keener ears might be able to pinpoint this better than me. I also found the differences to be dependent on the specific piece of music, to a certain extent.

    Ok, for all those caveats, there are some slight but appreciable differences between the perforated ZMF pads:

    The suede pads make for a slightly more v-shaped sound
    • with more emphasis to the bass and treble, it seems as though there’s a wider spectrum to the frequency response (even if there isn’t)
    • bass is tighter, better defined, and a bit stronger
    • percussion, generally, is more apparent and forward
    • strings have more bite and upper-end emphasis
    • cymbals are a bit more prominent; you can also hear flutes and triangles more clearly in orchestral pieces
    • the suede pads offer a cleaner and clearer, more transparent sound
      • it’s more open-sounding
    • with some pieces of music, there is a bit more glare at the top end while on others it is smoother
    • the suede pads are either slightly more fatiguing (or I got more tired over time)


    Solid Lambskin
    As you might expect from the lack of perforations, these pads make for a more pronounced difference in the sound of the HD 600. Of the three ZMF pads, they’re warmer, bassier, and more v-shaped.

    They’re also bassier than with the stock pads. The bass has a meatier sound, meaning that it’s not just stronger but also warmer and a bit boomier. Drums stand out more thanks to the greater slam.

    Compared with the ZMF perforated pads, electric guitars have more heft even as they’re still nice and bitey. Vocals are fine, though overtaken by the guitars on a few songs.

    These pads are less airy than the other but by no means are they congested. They make for a richer sound, one that’s thicker and not as trebly or fatiguing as the perforated pads.


    Conclusion
    I’m a fan of all three pads and intend to get them at some point. It’s really easy to pad roll. They’re comfy, more so than the stock pads in some respects, even if my ears touched their inside walls.

    I very much like the option of tweaking my HD 600 to match the kind of music I’m listening to, or to suit my mood. The solid pads make for a more v-shaped tuning. In a word, they’re fun. I could see them working well for electronic and other musical genres. The perforated lambskin pads, by contrast, offer more treble and less bass, which makes them an excellent option for listening to classical music.

    I’ll wrap this up with a half-educated guess: given the brighter, more transparent, cleaner, clearer, and more resolving qualities of the ZMF pads, I could see them working wonders for the HD 650.
     
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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2022
  9. shambles

    shambles Facebook Friend

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    I got a pair of the perforated suedes and a pair of the perforated lambskin last month and currently have the perf suede on my HD600 at home and the perf lambskin on my HD6XX at the office. Certainly the increase in clarity and resolution from the thinner foam combined with the slightly brighter signature did work for me with the HD6XX but YMMV I guess.

    For the HD600s I did not find the perf suedes to be overly bright, but my system is relatively warm and I do also have the Custom Cans damping kit fitted ( https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...hd650-mod-measurements-and-impressions.11801/ ) with the bored foam inserts. This brings up the bass and nicely offsets the (perceived?) decrease in relative bass output from the ZMF pads whilst retaining the significant increase in resolution. Suppose the logic is similar to combining the classic KISS mod with the quarter foam mod.
     
  10. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    ZMF Earpads for Sennheiser HD6__ Impressions

    @Tchoupitoulas... perfect review... almost exactly match my impressions with a very similar chain. Since I can't simply copy paste that review... Please read first and consider this as a minor addendum to that excellent piece of work.
    Anner Bylsma Prélude to Bach’s Suite for solo cello No. 1 in G major
    The 5 Browns Malagueña from Andalucia Suite
    Pamela Frank/Zurich Tonhalle Orchestra Mozart’s Serenade No. 7 for orchestra in D major
    John Williams/John Etheridge Extra Time for 2 Guitars
    Duplessy & The Violins of the World Kung Fu
    Tool Chocolate Chip Trip
    Kaki King Ingots
    The Beatles Norwegian Wood
    Eagles Hotel California (from Hell Freezes Over)
    Carl Anderson Heaven on their Minds
    James Brown It’s a New Day, Pts. 1-2
    Earth Wind & Fire Shining Star
    Los Lonely Boys I Don’t Wanna Lose Your Love (Live at Blue Cat Blues)
    Led Zeppelin Moby Dick (from How the West was Won)
    Daft Punk Giorgio by Moroder
    Cream Badge
    Ben Harper & The Blind Boys of Alabama Take My Hand
    Horace Silver Quintet Finger Poppin’
    Maynard Ferguson Birdland
    Phil Woods Rain Dance (Live from the Showboat)
    Bill Evans Trio Detour Ahead [Take 2]
    Ray Charles/Count Basie Orchestra Oh, What a Beautiful Morning
    Macy Gray Redemption Song
    Joni Mitchell California

    Pi2AES -> BNC -> Bifrost 2 -> SE -> BH Crack (speedball and other mods) -> HD600
    Mods: Speedball; Mundorf Caps; Alps Pot with resistors; cree diodes
    Tubes: Tungsol/Chatham 6AS7g & Tungsram ECC82
    To preface, my HD600 is circa 2014 and the stock pads were recently replaced... very little (if any) wear... and I've tried various aftermarket Senn pads in the past and have always come back to stock.
    • Solid Lamb - To my ears, these add bass quantity and make for a very fun listen with genres where I typically find the HD600 lacking. Thinking rock, EDM, etc. Clean/Clear/Dynamic, but maybe with a slight recession in the mids (this could also be the darker dac, paired with a darker amp, paired with the darker pads).
    • Perforated Lamb - A little brighter than the stock pads... not desired with the HD600, but if I still had the HD6xx (sold last month), then these would definitely have a home. I think these would be perfect on them.
    • Perforated Suede - The goldilocks pads for me... just right. These are most open sounding, tame the highs ever so slightly and punchier bass. Like the other pads, increased clarity vs stock. I also found the suede to be the most comfortable of the three (but not quite as comfortable as the stock).

    Ergonomics
    Similar to @Tchoupitoulas, I found the ear opening a little tight around my ears and would prefer if these pads could be put in the copy machine with a 1.1x enlargement. That said, the sonic improvements are worth the slight discomfort over stock. I'm just need to readjust the headphones more often and tend to have shorter listening sessions.

    Conclusion
    I'm having a hard time putting the stock pads back on my cans and will be ordering Perforated Suede and Solid Lamb - solid upgrades to stock. Thank you @zach915m for the loaner and great job. Thank you @rhythmdevils and SBAF for all the hard work keeping the loaner program running.
     
  11. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    Can anyone on the loaner tour who've also spent time with the various Dekoni pads possibly provide some comparisons?
     
  12. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    I had a set of Dekoni suede pads years ago that I tried as a replacement for the stock... all I can tell you as they went back in the box, were sold on ebay, and I bought a new pair of stock pads. In contrast, I have a set of ZMF perforated suede pads that should arrive tomorrow (FedEx gods willing)

    Other than the above anecdotal statement, it was too long ago to directly compare and my tastes may have changed since them.
     
  13. shambles

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    I was alternating between the Dekoni elite velours and elite fenestrated sheepskin on my HD600s before I switched to the ZMF perforated suede's a couple of months back. I didn't do any backwards and forwards comparisons after getting the ZMF pads because pad swapping is kind of a pain, but I think I was sufficiently familiar with the Dekonis given that I used them for around a year.

    I'd say the two biggest differences when switching to the ZMFs suedes were a significant increase in resolution (as discussed earlier, this seems to be due to the much thinner front foam used) and a noticeable drop in bass extension and level. The first is an unambiguous plus, I guess the importance of the second depends on what you listen to - I certainly missed the additional low end for a lot of the electronic stuff I listen to (house, dub, techno, etc.). However, when looking at my listening overall, I felt that the strengths of the ZMFs were sufficient to displace the Dekonis even with this downside. My HD600s are also modded with the Custom Cans damping kit and I did initially considering changing the foam inserts to increase the LF level a bit to compensate, but in the end did not bother - maybe will test this if I am bored one day.

    There were other sound differences elsewhere, but more minor - I'd say overall timbre and texture seems slightly better with the ZMFs, but perhaps this is linked to the increase in resolution noted above. My perception is that the ZMFs are also a bit better in terms of balance/coherence across the frequency range and give a slightly wider soundstage with better positioning (I think Zach slightly angled the pads, so maybe this is why?), but I wouldn't want to put too much weight on this without doing some proper A/B comparisons.

    I'd also add that comfort wise I did find the Dekonis to be a little better - the thick memory foam gives a perfect seal even with my glasses and superb comfort. I think the Dekonis are also a tiny bit cooler in hot weather, but the ZMFs are still significantly more comfortable to me than stock pads and can wear them all day without issue.

    Finally, the above relates to the HD600s which are my main headphone for proper listening, but I also have a pair of HD6XX at the office. Unlike the HD600 where I liked the Dekonis, with the HD6XX none of them worked for me in terms of how they changed the frequency response and so went back to stock pads - the ZMFs on the other hand did work for me with the HD6XX and have settled on the perforated lambskin there. As such, for anyone who tried Dekonis with the HD650 and was not impressed vs stock pads, I think it's worth trying to listen to the ZMFs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2022
  14. StageOne

    StageOne Friend

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    For the most part my impressions fall in line with the last few reviews but I'm using a JAR650 and Grado Hemp headphones.

    Pi2AES > Yggydrasil OG > Freya+ > DNA Starlett > JAR650/Hemp

    JAR650
    • Perforated Suede (PS) - Versus stock, these added some air to the top end and tighened the bass. They added snappiness and quickness. The headstage did shrink a little but instruments and voices but sounded more defined and with better separation. Also more comfortable that stock.
    • Perforated Lambskin (PL) - These ended up being my favorite. Touch brighter than stock with better bass. Sounded a little more forward than the PS and had a wider headstage. Overall I found these very lively and not as muted as stock or PS. They are a blend of the other two pads.
    • Solid Lambskin (SL) - These added the most bass but I found the bass, mids and treble all bled into each other and everything got too busy. They might work better on a stock HD650
    Swapping back to the stock pads, they just sound muted up top and bloomy.

    Hemp
    I was really interested in trying these pads with the Grado and the Hemp comes with the flat pads and while I can wear them for hours, I wouldn't mind something more comfortable. Swapping the pads on the Grado is not as quick nor fun so I only tested my two favorite pads, the perforated types. Sadly neither of these worked well on the Hemp. The Flat pads are what gives them thier magic, they don't work well with the standard Grado bowls. Both pads suffered from a very narrow headstage and drop in bass. I do think these would work much better with other Grados that come with the bowl pads.

    Overall, I really like the ZMF pads on the JAR650s they add definition and a clearer sound
     
  15. saint.panda

    saint.panda Friend

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    To offer a different point of view: I've now had the perforated lambskin pads for my HD6xx (KISS modded) for a few days, and I prefer the original pads: more balanced & more diffuse sound that I consider the HD6xx's strength & weakness alike. Comfort is also lower (more sweaty). Yes, speed and resolution feel a bit higher with the ZMF pads but some of the Senn magic is also lost.
     
  16. yotacowboy

    yotacowboy McRibs Kind of Guy

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    I'm just going to pile on here a bit, rather than write up a full on review. I concur with the above opinion, but with a couple differences:
    • JAR650 + perforated suede is a spectacular match for me
    • HD600 + copper CustomCans ring was better w/ Dekoni suede, oddly enough; the ZMF PS tightened things up/focused things a bit too much in the treble, to the point where HD600 looses a little bit of what differentiates it from HD650
    Some of this might be due to my chain (iPhone > CCK USB > BF2 > SW51+) so not quite as outright resolving as a Yggdrasil-sourced chain. Either way, JAR650 + ZMF Perforated Suede is a definite keeper, and the comfort over stock pads is fantastic.
     
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    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
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  17. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    @yotacowboy

    Some solicited Dekoni commentary.

    My blog post on Dekoni and the Senn 600s- Click
     
  18. Erroneous

    Erroneous Friend

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    Many thanks to SBAF and ZMF for making this loaner tour possible.

    So I'll post my incredibly not organized as-it-happens notes now.
    First off, I didn't read anything about these pads because I didn't want to color my opinion. Secondly, for baffle chasers I think I should say that the older Senn baffles are super delicate and don't be me.
    When you pull these ZMF pads off, the plastic ring stays and you have to remove it with the Murder Stick. This will poke holes in your baffle.

    Thankfully with the WHITE f'ing PAPER 580 I originally tried these on, I can't hear a difference between the not-poked baffle and the poked baffle. But these shits are rare enough that it hurts just knowing they're not stock.

    Anyhow, here are my janky notes on the subject:

    Perf suede with WP580 (WP580 tests stopped after this because of the Murder Stick.)
    Takes things out of focus a bit, warmer and a bit smeared together. But I can see people wanting this sound. It's like a rounded, tubey, comfy, warm hug.
    People allergic to treble like Eaglewings would probably really like these pads.
    Very comfortable, great squish.

    KISS SS650 with Perf Suede:
    Brings the stage closer.
    Had to take each side of the headband out another click.
    Still softens the sound, not as much as with WP580. It's a comfortable sound overall but brings vocals too close for comfort and there's a hotness to the upper mids that's uncomfortable. Strings are extra plucky and textured though, and that's nice.

    650 Lambskin perf
    These sound overall more balanced.
    Definitely more focused and on point than perf suede. This gels more with my preferences. (Though when I had Aeolus I preferred perf suede for those.)
    This is a livelier sound but not honky or too present in all the wrong places. It's crisper. When played loud it can get out of hand, but at regular volumes it's very good. I may actually pick up a pair of these to try with my various Sennheisers to see where the synergy lies, as long as I can keep the Murder Stick in line. It really should be made of metal.

    SS650 Solid lamb
    Not as bad as I would have thought at all. Wouldn't be my preference but it is not abhorrent.
    It's way too saturated. But it's still not THAT far off. It doesn't sound terrible. If there were a viable closed 6X0, this would likely be the pad for it. Nothing sounds immediately out of whack, it's just too closed in and retains too much energy that needs to be directed back out of the headphone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2022
  19. AllanMarcus

    AllanMarcus Friend

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    I'm way out of practice with critical listening! Also, lot's has been said here, so I will be brief, I think the graphs tell the whole story.

    Thank you Zack for the loaners!
    • Lambskin
      • Very thick sound. Not to my liking Maybe these would pair well with lower end grados.
    • I couldn't hear the difference between the others and stock pads. I prefer fabric style pads, and I felt there was more clearance for my ears with the stock pads.
    I've done lots of pad swapping with my TH900, and I could hear differences there, but not here. If you prefer a leather feel to fabric then the ZMF pads are a great alternative.

    ALAC files to Bifrost Multibit to Mainline to stock HD6xx.
     
  20. donunus

    donunus Friend

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    Has anyone tried the zmf perf lambskin on the hd58x?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2022

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