iFi Zen DAC V2 Review (including impressions on Signature version)

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Oct 27, 2022.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    While I heard and reviewed the Drop Signature variant here, I had never had a chance to hear the plain Zen DAC. This here is the V2 version of the Zen DAC. It sounds different from the Drop Signature version (I have no idea how the V2 Signature sounds like), in that it's less laid-back, less outright warm, but yet maintains a palatable mid-to-high treble free from digititus common in the higher-end ESS + OPA1612 designs built purely to score well on SINAD graphs to the tenth of a decibel.

    DSCF0295-1.jpg

    Resolution and technicalities match what I remember from the Drop Signature. The Zen DAC V2 is energetic with plenty of slam in the low end and strong attack on the transients without the etch or splash. There's also bit of that vintage saturation thing going when the signal hits peak levels. (I'm betting a uplift in THD as we get near and toward 0dbFS). A bit like the Burl B2 Bomber DAC, but with the Burl's output level turned down a bit. In terms of presentation, the Zen DAC V2 reminds me most of the Burl. A smidgen of outward warmth, an internal warmth that becomes most evident at higher sound levels, and muscular drive. If you prefer your toms sounding smeared and snares lacking the snap that wakes you up, then by all means go elsewhere. No, the Zen DAC V2 doesn't render bass textures or microdynamics as well as the Burl, but it doesn't cost well over $2k either.

    Compared to the slightly higher priced Modius E, the Modius has the edge in "black-ground", fine detail, and a delicateness (I know, unbelievable for an ESS based DAC). However the Modius E's transients are less hard hitting; and however a good job Schiit has done to un-delta-sigma the highs to the point where they are better than AKM version of the Modius, they are still evident, especially in longer listening sessions. It's really pick your poison when it comes to Modius E and Zen V2. They are simply different sounding. Personally my pick is the iFi Zen DAC because of its energy and drive. To me, it's a mini Burl B2. Your pick may be different. One thing for sure: the Zen DAC deserves a lot more attention than it gets.

    Note that I only used the single ended outputs. I used the Magni 3+ and Piety as head-amps with a wide variety of headphones (Grado, HD650, ZMFs). I'm turning sour on balanced stuff on the entry level end. PIA and extra expense that I'm just not going to bother with it. The best entry and mid level stuff is single-ended.

    FWIW, I do my DAC evaluations these days blind. I put a box over the DACs so I don't know they are. Every day before the kids head out to school, I ask my wife to scramble the cables. It's really not that hard to tell the difference. Just as it wasn't hard to tell the difference between the beef nihari at Pakwan or Shalimar. This assuming if one was familiar with how each restaurants made this dish (although it would be hard for someone who had never tasted beef nihari).

    The downsides to the Zen DAC? USB input only. Also, just pretend the built-in headphone output doesn't exist or is a freebie prize found at the bottom of the Frankenberry cereal box.

    P.S. I bought this for myself from Amazon.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
  2. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    iFi Audio Zen DAC V2
    1kHz steady-state sine
    0dbFS SE output into 100k-ohm load
    upload_2022-10-27_19-56-12.png

    iFi Audio Zen DAC
    1kHz steady-state sine
    -30dbFS SE output into 100k-ohm load
    upload_2022-10-27_19-52-46.png

    iFi Audio Zen DAC
    1kHz steady-state sine
    -60dbFS SE output into 100k-ohm load
    upload_2022-10-27_19-53-24.png

    iFi Audio Zen DAC
    1kHz steady-state sine
    -90dbFS SE output into 100k-ohm load
    upload_2022-10-27_19-54-16.png
     
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    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    iFi Audio Zen DAC V2
    THD (db) vs output (dbFS )
    1kHz steady-state sine SE output
    upload_2022-10-27_20-20-16.png

    iFi Audio Zen DAC
    Linearity (x5 measurement overlay)
    Relative level (db) vs output (dbFS )
    1kHz steady-state sine SE output
    upload_2022-10-27_20-27-17.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2022
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    iFi Zen DAC V2
    White Noise 48kHz
    250kHz bandwidth
    upload_2022-10-27_20-31-32.png

    iFi Zen DAC V2
    Impulse Response
    upload_2022-10-27_20-35-45.png

    iFi Zen DAC V2
    500Hz square wave
    -10dbFS
    upload_2022-10-27_20-39-29.png

    Looks like linear phase filter.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2022
  5. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I've got limited experience with iFi DACs generally but have had pretty good experiences with their stuff so far both at home and in demo settings. IIRC you've not gotten ears on the original silver Micro iDSD but how's this compare to the Black Label variant purely as a DAC, @purr1n?

    The chunkier transportable models had pretty great treble balance in Bit Perfect mode, though from memory the headstage was more width than it was depth. I was less a fan of their GTO filter cuz it seemed to muddy image precision a bit relative to Bit Perfect but at least that had no egregious tonality weirdness to my ears; what filter does this come stock with again?
     
  6. WoodyLuvr

    WoodyLuvr Friend

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    Couldn't agree more.

    One of the most surprising components, in many years for me, has been my little iFi Audio ZEN DAC Signature v2. Simply amazed how well this little DAC performs and most especially at this price point! I had ordered it on a simple lark (after reading about the V1 here on SBAF) thinking that it would probably not fare very well.. but what a surprise! It is a wonderful DAC and most importantly it is in perfect synergistic partnership with my vacuum tube amp. Out of all the DACs that I tried, nothing seems to pair as well than the Zen DAC Signature V2. Chalk it up to my being one of those squirrelly TI Burr Brown fiends!

    More here
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Only one filter here, linear phase with fast rolloff from the measurements. Hard to compare because the Micro BL is an AIO and as you mentioned, the BL has various filter selections whereas the Zen DAC V2 does not. However, I feel don't the Bit Perfect filter is necessary at all. In a DAC vs DAC comparison, the iFi ZEN V2 is way better. It's just hard for AIO portables / transportables to compete directly against dedicated desktop units, even entry level low cost ones. I like what iFi is offering us with this, their vision of what this should sound like. Throwing in a Bit Perfect mode would probably just result in yet another option that just doesn't sound as good to what I'm hearing now.

    You know me. I hate options. I prefer audio gear designers to just give me what they think sounds best.

    The opposite are the Chi-Fi outfits that give us eight filter options, six of which sound like shit, and two are decent. It's like grow some balls or have a spine. Pick one and voice / optimize the DAC for that one.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 28, 2022
  8. scapeinator1

    scapeinator1 Once You Go Black You'll Never Go Back

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    Anyone know of any discernable differences between the V1 and the V2 ZEN DACs? I've been using the V1 and an IEmagni as my setup at work for a while now. Can't complain, it's very capable and inoffensive.

    Also, my understanding is that the Zen DACs can run with or without external power provided. I managed to dig up a 5V supply at the lab and I found that it seemed to sound better that way. Would be curious whether in measurements there is a noticeable difference?
     
  9. Baten

    Baten Friend

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    IIRC they should be extremely similar since the V2 was mostly about USB/XMOS chip upgrade to give it some more horse power (more stable MQA, etc..), sound wise they should be just about the same.
     
  10. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    This has nothing to do with the Zen DAC, although it sounds like a nice DAC! Just want to ask @purrin if you're stoked you get to just type "Piety" instead of "super secret continuity-circuit, mini-Jotenheim in a magni case that I've had for years that you will never hear, that will probably never get released, unless..."
     
  11. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    I really liked the time I spent with the V1 ZenDAC. I think the V2 designation may have been due to difficulty getting parts and some slight changes to the XMOS chip etc as it came out so soon after the V1.

    I'm curious about the ZenAirDAC, especially if one has no need for the balanced outputs or the XBASS and what not. It's a shame the price had to go up on the ZenDACv2 as the V1 was compelling at $99USD, but again, the ZenAir may do really well at that price point also.

    iFi is loaning me a ZenDAC Signature to review for my blog, so I will report back about that one also.
     
  12. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Excellent stuff @purr1n, thank you very much!
     
  13. Entropy

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    I have a bit of a different take, as somebody with relatively inexpensive gear, somebody that doesn't critically listen much, and assomebody with people buying their first dac/amp in mind.

    There's been a good amount of press about the zendac v2 as a mainstream product- Youtubers such as Darko and Badseed have hundreds of thousands of views on their reviews of the product. Many people tout this as a great budget offering, especially for those just starting off, and those looking for an easy "one and done" unit. I don't see that, at least not anymore. At $200, It doesn't feel competitive- It starts to deal with amplifiers that simply outclass it in most areas (at least in my opinion). For example, the SMSL c200 Is $200-$220 and provides everything the zendac has in terms of features, plus some- more power, a remote control, more inputs+bluetooth, and a little display. Of course, this is ES9038Q2M+OPA1612 dacamp, so there will be drawbacks of the sonic characteristics that you mention, but I feel that the benefits of the other features outweigh that aspect, especially for less sonically selective/perceptive people, or those picking up their first unit.

    It goes without saying that the Schiit stack is another great option at this rough pricepoint as well, but I won't write out another paragraph lol. Even factoring in Ifi's zen air lineup, which from what I've heard sounds and feels quite similar (minus the metal chassis and balanced capability), there are great alternatives to them that makes me hesitate whenever I want to recommend a unit.

    I've also heard some complaints about the reliability of the zendac as well, and I do experience minor issues with it that have developed over time. Might be some issues there- but hey, they aren't pulling a Topping. Unfortunately, it just serves as another reason why I'm not the biggest proponent of the zendac. Bit of a shame that they've been raising prices. It was a very nice unit at $130.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I disagree, but allow me to explain. My perspective has a different use case.
    1. Even with entry level head amps (especially those withOUT 130db+ of open loop again), I find that they can be better served with dedicated DACs. The use case for the Zen DAC V2 for me is as a dedicated DAC only. As I mentioned clearly in the first post, the headphone out is nothing special. Personally I would not use the the Zen DAC as an AIO DAC/amp.
    2. I'd rather listen from the $200 iFi Go Blu (assuming efficient headphones and IEMs) than yet another bad-Chi-Fi ESS 9038+ OPA1612 AIO. The iFi Go Blu has Bluetooth too, which is arguably the most important feature, well other than it's very pocketable (another feature).
    3. Typical bad-Chi-Fi BS (which seems to never be mentioned): the C200 requires the installation of an XMOS driver for UAC2.0 operation with Windows. C'mon. This isn't 2014.
    4. I find the ESS 9038+ OPA1612 AIOs and DACs from Topping and SMSL rather uninspiring to listen to and tonally suboptimal. SBAF has never been into "features" nor recommending gear for "less sonically selective/perspective" people. (There is RTings for that). The founding principles behind SBAF has always been to push "less sonically selective/perspective" to being more selective/perspective. In over tens years of doing this, I've seen many many people go from objective / features / unbeliever to / "less sonically selective/perspective" to something a lot more than that - along with letters of appreciation and thanks. It doesn't mean spending big money either.
    5. Re-emphasis: I will never ever recommend gear that is suitable only for less sonically selective/perceptive people, even for people picking up their first unit. Especially for people picking up their first unit. Doing so would be an act of pure evil.
    6. All of this is besides the point. What seems to have been completely missed was my comparison of Modius E to the Zen DAC V2 with respect to sonic presentation. Putting together a good sounding system is all about finding the ingredients that go well together. Knowing how stuff sounds can help people put the right ingredients together.
    7. "suitable only for less sonically selective/perceptive people"... WTH? LOL! That's gotta be an euphemism for "sounds craptastic"
     
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    Last edited: Dec 8, 2022
  15. WoodyLuvr

    WoodyLuvr Friend

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    Been absolutely tickled with the performance of my iFi Audio ZEN DAC Signature v2 another budget "standalone" DAC in the ZEN family of audio devices. I'll be over the moon if it performs even half as long as my iFi Audio Nano iDSD BL did!
     
  16. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    Curious. You don't seem to have first-hand experiences with either (zen dac v1 or c200), do you? This forum does not favor comparisons based on speculations purely drawn from spec sheets or MFR claims. Some might do in acceptable ways but those folks used to be proven excellent at doing so.

    Beside, (as a a bit sonically selective person in my own unique ways lol) I'm highly hesitant to recommend any of entry or semi-entry level smsl products unless I am fully convinced with my own ears, let preferential issues alone. Smsl release confusingly many products that share the identical main chips. Do they all sound the same? Not at all at least in my single-blind or unblinded auditions. I almost feel like they make intentional compromises in entry ones to differentiate their higher end offerings. Of course there are some exceptions -- so buying from smsl should require more nuanced investigation to figure out whether and what is exceptional, I think.

    Aside: if I have to buy a budget-ish dac for $100-200, I'd first consider to browse ifi and schiit as their prior entry products satisfied me solidly in their respective lights. Can't say much about zen dac v2 or modius e atm tho.

    On the features front, saying "X is better than Y because of the number/coverage of features" is highly naive and dispreferred way of making claims in this forum. Features sometimes matter. And it's naturally impossible to consider without use cases/scenarios. It will be great if you can explain why specific feature(s) matters with convincing anecdotal episodes. Otherwise, FWIW extra feature I don't use means that some unnecessary parts take up space and/or waste other resource, which may cause lower performance over the counterfactuals.
     
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  17. señorhifi

    señorhifi Friend

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    I think when we say here "X deserves more attention", we mean attention within the small SBAF community. The Zen Dac V2 isn't crazy popular here, so it does deserve more attention. Oh and of course, we recommend based on sonic merits mainly. If X thing has a great set of options but doesn't sound good, we usually don't care about it.
     
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  18. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    This.

    Case in point, I recently picked up an Arturia Minifuse 2 for significantly below MSRP on behalf of my dad since he was wanting to get into recording vocals at home. This is a feature-laden interface that seems to offer a great deal of functionality uncommon at its recommended price, so getting one for less than half of what a Focusrite 2i2 would have cost was a no-brainer.

    One such feature, albeit a common one, was a 6.35mm headphone jack for monitoring input. I've a friend who, despite having dedicated playback gear, spent some time listening purely out of their Yamaha AG06 (or 03? Can't recall); I thought it'd be nice if I could streamline my desktop setup and sell off things that I could have done without, so spent some time listening through that headphone output, or running it as a DAC.

    Yeah no it was painful and unconscionably harsh. The amount of gross resolution it eked out was pretty impressive for the price, and it managed not to be overly sterile-sounding, but I'd rather listen to the HD600s out of an Xbox controller. Just because something has a laundry list of features packed in does NOT mean that those features are necessarily well-executed.

    A bunch of people here have given iFi gear a hard time for their having a lot of auxiliary features packed in that, logic might dictate, drive up the price of their gear beyond what might be "fair" when only evaluating their sonic performance. That's less a thing nowadays, but even in the past it can be argued that the like of the original Micro iDSD and the BL editions of the Nano and Micro respectively just sounded good regardless, so the feature-itis was excused.

    Schiit stuff is austere by comparison, and while that's possibly a bit of a letdown for people predisposed to needless tinkering for fun's sake, there is a comfort to simply having something do its job, no busywork necessary-- look at how effective a marketing ploy that was for Apple.
     
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  19. Entropy

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    Incorrect. I have owned zendac v1 since july 2021. I have not heard the c200 firsthand, but have heard similar ess-based dacs, and have heard secondhand about it from sources that I trust. My system is on this page. My zendac is hiding out to the left, under the tabletop of my desk.

    As for examples for features... I don't get this. Do I need to explain why more power on tap can be usedful? Bluetooth? A greater variety of inputs? It's not like filters/modes or something, I feel that the utility of these features should be pretty obvious, but I digress.
    The c200 has a lot of great preamp features. Switchable outputs-one 4v balanced, the other rca- can be usedful, especially if you have powered monitors. It can serve as an appropriate speaker/poweramp source and source, with bluetooth and remote control for use in situations where the physical unit is out of reach. For me, that's when I'm about my house. My house has an open floor plan, and my listening room is open to the rest of the house. Bluetooth and an rc would allow for me to much more easily stream music from my phone and adjust volume.
    The design and front display is something that I prefer (and I think quite a few others would as well), and the higher power on top just gives it more compatibility with headphones (aragon, for example), making it more of a true all-in-one unit imo.

    A lot of people that I end up making recommendations to have limited budgets, limited or no interest in sound quality, and varying wants from a dac amp unit. Gauging what they seem to want, the c200 often looks to be the better recommendation in the end. I don't have it out for Ifi or anything- It's just the c200 seems like the best option of a list of imperfect options for a lot of people I interact with (not in sbaf, but in other communities that are unlike this one). Here, I'm just bringing that opinion to light, even if it may not apply to this community.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2022
  20. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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