HiFiMan SUSVARA "Review" and Measurements

Discussion in 'Headphone Measurements' started by purr1n, May 27, 2017.

  1. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    I've tried this. I ended up preferring tweaking the bass up a bit via EQ than the gap with the pad mounting ring method.

    As an aside, its certainly worth trying different pads with the Susvara though. I ended up really enjoying the Universe Suede perforated from ZMF with them.
     
  2. Huhnkopf

    Huhnkopf Friend

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    I've been trying the three pads Magneto suggested and ended up liking the Eikon Solid/Hybrid the most for the Susvara and the Ether 2 for the 4-screw.

    All three pads are of high quality and quite a bit better than anything Dekoni or Geekria or whoever else is into it. Dan Clark and Zach really got the pad game in their pockets, though both are much more expensive for EU folks. I recommend ordering a good bunch and splitting between friends.

    The order of "most loyal to the OG tonality/character" to all out assault" is

    ZMF Eikon Hybrid/Solid ---> ZMF Universe Hybrid/Solid ------> Ether 2 perforated (all protein leather).

    As the Susvara is more resolving of finer detail, more clear, clean and quite a bit more nuanced throughout I wanted to "lose" less of its cohorence and balance as much while preserving more bass energy and going for less soft upper mids. Thus I ended up with the Eikons.

    I still suggest listening to the stock form for a good while, plenty of people I know love it that way and imo it's a matter of taste in the end as the delicacy can also be its charme and not everyone wants near OG HE-6 attack and tactility on transients and mids. One guy I bought a HE-6 from for a friend of mine told me while he liked it the hammering on his skull fatigued him. lol

    Personally I listened to the TC and while it gave me great HE-6 vibes and went beyond it I couldn't live with the mids and general timbre. Else owning Susvara and the TC would be one hell of a combo but timbre should be nailed at these crazy prices and the Susvara is quite a bit better there and the mids and highs are untouchable in comparison.

    Susvara is harder to drive than both the TC (well, that one anyway) and the HE-6. While Susvara and some 4-screw HE-6's can be identical on sensivity it's more about getting out the most of Susvara's technicalities as the scaling is higher than the 6. I find a well run HE-6 to still be competitive though in this day's and age. Of course the crazy prices post HE-6 certainly help given its original price but the value is still high for what you get.

    I'm getting a custom Pass amp built by a friend who owns both headphones too and I will post some impressions once it's done.

    I chose the Ether 2 perforated on the HE-6 to make it more distinct from the Susvara so there's less overlap. Thus more aggressive, more intimate or more "rock out" as Magneto expressed via PM.


    Anyway:

    Ether 2 on HE-6:

    The Ether 2 perforated (excluding the outside) was all out assault in a good way, lifting up the upper mids from the previously installed ZMF Auteur lambskin and doing away the previously welcome dark tilt starting from the lower treble while not being brutal like installing OG velour, Velpads or Focuspad A. The balance is very welcome here.

    You exchange the slightly darker tonality, higher sub to midbass bass level/punch for more openness, clearer imaging due to lesser reflections and again, more upper mids making instrument. Imaging is not the HE-6's forté but the presentation is more cohorent when everything's more distinct.

    Eikon Hybrid/Solid on the Susvara:

    These pads are thicker than the Harmony Pads and increase the distance to the driver.

    They preserve the most of the Susvara's finest qualities, especially in the treble and the mids. Treble for instance keeps it's finest "hairs" that reach out and gives music it's breath of life. What sounds extremely ghey to an extent is lack of words to describe how clean and pristine the treble can be and of what high resolve and texture. It's just marvellous and makes the Susvara such a standout.
    ZMF Universe and Ether 2 do away with that, a bit but a bit too much and sound less refined there making it go more towards the 6.
    The same can be applied to the mids.


    What you get in the bass department is more (sub)bass increase and sustain and more "uniform" energy. The Eikons are able to unleash more of that to your eardrums whereas the Harmonys lose it somewhere on the way and can not apply the same "pressure".

    Still suggest to listen "stock" until one day you are curiousity gets hold over you.

    chain: Qobuz -> PI2AES -> AES -> SF Processor 3 -> Niimbus US4+
     
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  3. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    Given additional pad rolling in recent months, I have revised the Susvara review significantly.

    My favourite ear pads on them are now ZMF Auteur Hybrid Solid (non-perforated) but Dekoni Susvara Elite Hybrid are a nice choice too. Of course my previous favourite ZMF Eikon Hybrid remain great as well. More details in the review.
     
  4. Vanheim

    Vanheim Acquaintance

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    this madlad made a comparison review of the Airpods Max against the Susvara and other relevant high end counterparts. Give it a look if you haven't already!
     
  5. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    “they’re airy but there is no air up there.”
    beyond inane. if i could sue YouTube or the dood himself to get those minutes back in my life, i would.
     
  6. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    FYI - As of late, I found that this mod is working best with denser pads while not being quite as compatible with stock Harmony pads or other less dense pads (e.g. full velour). You might be loosing subbass.

    @jexby

    For aftermarket pads, you could try to follow a combination of two videos:

    1) For unmounting Susvara pads:


    2) For mounting thirdparty pads:


    Please note that you need to have some Hifiman mounting rings (from official store or elsewhere), to avoid taping/glueing. Susvara is fully compatible with these round rings (despite appearing tear-shaped from the outside, it's not internally) and larger pads such as Auteur Hybrids would fit them great visually too.

    if you would be struggling with ear pad swap, you could try to cut/tear off dust covers from the pads - it makes mounting/unmounting easier and I prefer this sonically too (more transparent sound + a bit more lifelike reflections especially with the Auteur Hybrids). The dust covers are not needed in normal situations, as Susvara is already protected from both sides of driver by a metal mesh against larger objects (while regular dust is a non-issue). If you would want to get dust covers back to use anytime after, either somebody skilled could re-sew them back to the pads or you can simply place the dust cover material on cups and then secure it on the headphones by mounting the pads on it.

    If you find some enjoyable aftermarket pads, take your time to subjectively match each pad with preferred headphone side/channel. Pads are typically not perfectly symmetrical and not mounting them appropriately to L/R side might yield worse wearing comfort as well as sonics.

    Hope this helps!
     
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    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  7. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    Thanks for the posts @Magnetostatic_Tubephile ! Turns out I had all of the parts here and didn't realize it. Gotta say it was unnerving just how easily a 3 year old pair of HIFIMAN pads fell apart.

    I tried Auteur and Eikon perforated lambskin pads. The Eikon pads were much better, but still sharper than I'd prefer.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    They are different.

    With respect to tonality, I feel HE1 is overall a bit better on the account that I find its slight sibilance unobjectionable and slight mid-bass bump a good thing - this when it comes to "fast" headphones. The Susvara does have flatter lows, but highs are less smooth. Perhaps the most possibly objectionable thing about the Susvara is the timbre which can come off as steely or splashy in the highs. However, effect seems to be dependent upon amplification. The downside is that it always seemed to be a tradeoff. Amplifier with better timbre would sound softer with less forceful attacks. Amplifier that sounded strong would result in splashy highs. It's also possible I am affected by this more than others because we are not talking about strictly frequency response, but possible distortion and transient behavior.

    The Susvara was more resolving than HE1; but my audition of the HE1 which included well known recordings relied on the internal DAC, which to my understanding isn't that good. I'm heard from trusted people that better sources will yield better resolution and microdetail from the HE1. The downside with the HE1 is inflexibility in that one must use the amplifier which is provided.

    The old Orpheus HE90 was overall better than either the HE1 and Susvara. Hope this helps.

    P.S.

    Also, you may want to people in the thread on pad rolling to address tone / timbre issues with Susvara.
     
  9. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    There's been a lot of talk about that on the "other" forum. So much so that most Susvara owners there have non-standard pads for these cans.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You can say Head-Fi or ASR. We don't censor.
     
  11. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    Thought so, thanks for letting me know purr1n and I meant Head-fi of course :)
     
  12. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    [​IMG]

    Like I posted in my profile a week or so ago, I finally joined the Susvara club. Since I was blown away when I first heard them circa 2019, Sus has always been on my shortlist. It took 3.5 years for me to work up the courage (to fire up 4k-ish cash) though.

    Not so much to add to the sonic impression atm. Tonal balance is fairly close to HEX and presentation is somewhere in between HE6 and HEK. And technically better than any of them by all means. Everything I hear is not too different from what I recall from the memory.

    During the first week, I was trying to get some idea about what amplification I should go for in the next step. One head amp (ifi zen sig) and three speaker amp setups (single and dual aegir’s + clone accuphase) were examined. To my surprise, the winner was ifi. At the sound pressure level I enjoy, zen with +12db gain was spot on, where the pot was located around 10-11am position.

    Speaker amps commonly required very intense attenuation (40db or even more) on the preamp and under such conditions, heat noise was consistently bothering and I felt like losing microdynamics/details in most complicated passages. As it was not what I extrapolated from the HE6 experience, I tried back and forth multiple rounds, but I always came to the same conclusion: a clear no-go.

    Please note that this doesn’t mean every headamp is enough for Sus. As I wrote in another thread, Zen sig is a very solid performer to me, rivaling Jotunheim 2 and Mjolnir 1 in terms of presentation, technicality AND power. And the closest to my sonic preference among the three as the best sweetspot.

    I don’t think of the Zen sig for permanent amplification. It doesn’t seem to pull all the potential Susvara is capable of, either. But this investigation implies I may be more favorable with headphone amps that can do gain and power just good enough.

    I’m still not sure which amp I will settle down. Looking forward to examining whatever loaner amps that will come to my place down the road (Singxer, Flux, etc). Also looking at Hypsos and Pro iCan Sig. Given my current sonic preference toward ifi stuff, I’m most interested in the last option..

    Nonetheless, one thing making me happy is even though my Sus is currently handicapped by suboptimal amplification, they can handily slay any TOTL I had in the house before (needless to say, YMMV). Really excited to see how they grow on me from here.
     
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  13. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    This last option you speak of is quite popular indeed, but it's only fair to mention that many users report awesome results upon connecting Susvara to various speaker amps.
     
  14. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    It's already been 10 months since Susvara entered my collection. Like all new Sus owners I had my own quest to find optimal setups for this one of the most expensive (msrp-wise) pairs of headphones.

    While I still like almost every aspect as is (Now I don't think Sus acoustically perfect btw), I really wanted to mitigate HFM scoop in midrange and reduce over-sharpness I often heard. I suspect both issues might be associated with acoustic decisions HFM made (cup interaction and minimal damping).

    After pairing with many crazy amps and dacs in local meetings, I re-realized that tonality problem might not be efficiently addressed by gear pairing or matching. Some helped a bit but not to the extent I wanted. Even more disappointing when gear prices were factored in.

    Then I explored alternative pads. After trying out a few experimental options, I found Dekoni pads (to be specific elite fenestrated sheepskin) were the closest to my tonal taste. Major changes over stock pads included:
    • The recessed midrange was somewhat lifted particularly around 1khz
    • Sharpness and edginess caused by lower treble were audibly more controlled

    EARS measurements below:

    upload_2023-1-13_21-27-6.png

    One thing I liked with these pads is they didn't make sound darker (nor brighter). Instead, the pads made energy level consistent and cohesive across the whole treble region. The resulting sound is highly neutral to my flavor yet still remain Susvara-ish.

    I still keep revisiting stock pads these days as they are what Susvara is supposed to sound originally. This is necessary for a reference point for comparative analyses and tbh help me avoid add extra explanations haha.

    Anyway I like these Dekoni pads even over Digital corrections I did.

    PS. Slight attenuation shown in 20 hz is possibly a leak issue that I couldn't hear as suggested in the graph.
     
  15. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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    @Vtory Do try the ZMF Auteur hybrid if you can, the no hole version. You will need new spacers, available on AliExpress. That pads worked really well to fix up the mids in my experience, when I had the Susvara.
     
  16. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    That makes sense. I did have a fairly satisfying result when I slapped zmf suede pads on he6. Will experiment auteur pads later.
     
  17. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

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    That's interesting. One user on HF did say that Susvara dips from 1 to 3kHz and that makes its mids not up there with all else. He didn't like these cans because of that, even though the majority of owners consider them rather balanced (including me). So if you don't mind, how much of a difference these Dekoni pads make? Is it a subtle change? Or something that really changes how Sus perform?
     
  18. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

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    I think it's pretty much dependent on what you mainly listen to and what you look after. I'm sorta neutralist these days and listen to vocal-oriented modern genres as much. Dekoni pads greatly reduced my annoyance in mids and highs so that I could concentrate better. I don't think technical performance changes meaningfully though.

    Nonetheless, the preference over stock pads is strongly persistent for me. I only use stock pads on Sus when I comparatively review other headphones.
     
  19. Rthomas

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    Hi Guys,

    I borrowed a Susvara from a dealer last week and I wanted to share my thoughts.

    Chain = Macbook with Roon streaming from Qubuz > RME ADI2 DAC > Dynalo Mk2 & Ferrum Oor Amp> Utopia 2022 & Susvara.

    EQ = Both headphones were given a 5.5 db bass shelf below 100Hz , Q factor 0.7. I took this from Oratory's EQ settings

    Only this one band of EQ was used.

    These are not detailed impressions as these headphones have been extensively covered by many others.

    1. Details:

    I listened carefully for tiny details and nuances. Utopia is as detailed as Susvara to my ears. Obviously Susvara is a bit brighter so it is easier to pick out things like cymbals and string instruments.

    2. Soundstage:

    I found this surprising. Both headphones were a ''in or just around my head'' experience. Susvara soundstage was a bit taller and Utopia was a bit deeper.

    3. Dynamic contrast/punchiness/impact = This was a clear win for the Utopia. I thought using the Ferrum Oor would make a difference but that wasn't the case.

    Bass is just more fun on the Utopia.

    The Susvara with the Ferrum and the Dynalo sounded pretty similar even thought the Ferrum is roughly twice as powerful.

    This reinforces my belief that many Headfiers are simply delusional with Susvara power requirements.....

    Both headphones are amazing with excellent tuning. The dynamic punch of the Utopia makes it the winner for me. I'm sending the Susvara back and keeping the Utopia 2022.

    In 2016 when Utopia was released Marvey made a post about throwing the SR009/Audezes/HD800s etc etc in the trash. I thought he was being a bit ridiculous at the time but now after owning or home demoing nearly every flagship he had a point ;)
     
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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2023
  20. Taguro

    Taguro Almost "Made"

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    This is similar to what I feel. I own both the Utopia and the Susvara. Both are excellent headphones, but I tend to use the Utopia more. It's really the dynamics and engagement factor that does it for me. The Susvara feels faster, has a wider stage and has this ethereal top end not unlike HFM's other nano diaphragm models, at the expense of some tactility and physicality. I guess it mostly comes down to musical preference. The Susvara really comes out ahead when it comes to things like classical, acoustic or folk music due to the more natural timbre, but for modern genres I listen to 90% of the time, the Utopia is the better choice.
     

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