Good sound quality with streaming is not possible without using optical fiber

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by econaut, Aug 14, 2022.

  1. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Of course my advice assumes the Cisco switch which you may have bought online has had its configuration erased. No vlans except vlan1, no trunks, no line passwords, and set to auto for everything. Instructions for erasing a config are easy enough to find with Google. Knowing how to connect to the RS232 console and configure IOS unlocks a lot of additional potential for networking. Probably not so much for audio.
     
  2. Thad E Ginathom

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    Is there noise?

    If so, there is a problem to solve. If not, there isn't.
     
  3. m.i.c.k.e.y

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    I'm try to update my generic FO SFP transciever. Any recommendations?
    I am looking at Finisar:
    FTLF1318P3BTL - Duplex SMF 1310nm Band Fabry-Perot Laser PIN 1.25 Gb/s 10 km -40 to 85 1G LX LC
    FTLF1518P1bTL - Duplex SMF 1550nm DFB Laser PIN 1.25 Gb/s 90 km -40 to 85 1G LX LC
    FTLF1321P1BTL - Duplex SMF 1310nm Band Fabry-Perot Laser PIN 2.67 Gb/s 2 km -40 to 85 1G SX/FE LC

    Leaning on the later.
     
  4. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    Finisar makes good stuff, we used their SFPs where I used to work, except where we needed to use much more expensive Cisco branded ones for support purposes.

    Mutlimode is better suited to short runs. If you must use single mode don't get the one rated for 90 kilometers if you just plan to use it in your house. It won't be better.
     
  5. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    SFP nervosa is real over at AudiophileStyle and a bunch of them seemed to prefer FTLX1475D3BTL, FWIW. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
  6. Kernel Kurtz

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    That is a 10Gb/s module. It is also SFP+, so you can't use it in a device with older SFP ports (though the opposite usually works).

    From a networking perspective, you will get the most reliable transmission (fewest errors) if your optical network is running in the specified power range for the devices you choose. We typically use an optical power meter and a calibrated source to measure this, though some devices will be able to report this in the interface stats assuming you have a managed device and know how to access it.

    I have no idea what "audiophiles" consider the parameters for a "best" SFP is. Logic seems to dictate to me that the goals would be the same - fewer errors mean fewer retransmissions, which is more important for real time streams like audio or video than it is for data like a webpage or spreadsheet. I'll admit it is possible jitter values make a difference, but I'm skeptical. Significant jitter will manifest as errors, and in any case this will depend on the entirety of the optical plant and not just the SFPs.
     
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  7. internethandle

    internethandle Almost "Made"

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    Their claims are literally just blind "this module sounds best," usability/compatability/price/what have you be damned. So again, yeah, huge grain of salt, but then again, look at what thread we're in.

    Glad you provided more context than I could, though. I've never ventured into optical ethernet, so I have no idea what I'm talking about, really, in terms of what might work with what.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2023
  8. Thad E Ginathom

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    Me neither. But I actually trust ethernet. It is wonderfully robust.

    As a general small/mid-business jack-of-trades systems manager (retired),I have no more than a basic practical working knowledge of networking (much forgotten). But I've noticed that those who do have deeper knowledge trust it even more than I do.

    It is those who haven't a clue who worry about the CAT numbers not being the highest and, hey, lets use fibre instead anyway.

    Pass me the bullet-proof vest....
     
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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2023
  9. Kernel Kurtz

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    I won't discount the value that electrical isolation may provide in various audio systems that rely on ethernet. Indeed some audio gear uses opto-isolation internally to the same effect for other types of interconnections.

    If we are talking about connections between the internet and a streaming box, or a NAS and a laptop sort of thing, TCP/IP at any reasonable speed is going to be far more bandwidth than even the highest res audio will needed (16/44.1 is equivalent to 1,411 kb/s) . DSD512 (32bits/384kHz equivalent) should use less than 25Mb/s. With normal TCP buffering this should be very error tolerant even on slow ethernet (100Mb/s) assuming the network is not saturated.

    I'm not that familiar with Dante. I understand it uses UDP rather than TCP, so it is going to be less error tolerant, but also specifies the use of QoS in mixed use networks to compensate. In any case gigabit ethernet, whether optical or copper, is way overkill for the bandwidth needs of audio, but hey, if people want to roll SFPs, who am I to argue?
     
  10. Tonjen

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    Econaut have you tried replacing all the copper ethernet cable with optical fiber and not just add a short piece near your streamer?
     
  11. AllanMarcus

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    I started reading this thread, then got bored. However, this one quote got to me. Where's the data to back this up! ;)
     
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  12. Pancakes

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    Data doesn't matter. I believe it ;)
     
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  13. Thad E Ginathom

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    An answer to this is impossible without a straw poll. Not copper or fibre: it has to be straw. Otherwise it's impossible.
     
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