Blind Test Part Deux: Schiit Heretic vs Magni+ (with statistical analysis)

Discussion in 'Blind Testing and Psychoacoustics' started by purr1n, Feb 16, 2023.

  1. Vtory

    Vtory Audiophile™

    Pyrate MZR
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2016
    Likes Received:
    10,842
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    East Coast
    ^
    I heard almost the same advice from my advisor/mentor at grad school. All the smart (and rationally risk-averse) people around me act the same way, too. My RL peers almost always say "I could be wrong" or "I'm not smart enough to understand XYZ" many times a day -- even though they may not think so on the inside.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 5
    • Like Like x 3
    • List
  2. roshambo123

    roshambo123 Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 26, 2018
    Likes Received:
    2,794
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Even as an SME this is true for me. I know 10% of what there is to know and am a dumb shit in everything else and if the SME's in the other 90% don't show up I am fucked.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  3. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    May 28, 2017
    Likes Received:
    8,088
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Vancouver BC
    The guy was a VP - meaning he managed the technical team, but likely had only general knowledge, not working familiarity, with the technical expertise needed to accomplish the task.

    After half a career of working for such people, my opinion is that the best are those who do their best to facilitate their teams' work and give them credit for successes; much worse are the grandstanders whose chief concern is getting the credit for that work themselves; and the absolute worst are the ones who try to pass off failures as successes (or who don't know the difference - eg Zune) and then try taking the credit.

    One of the latter was knighted and became CEO of the British public service. Demonstrating that beyond a certain point (surprisingly early) the Peter Principle starts to apply in reverse.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    ABX Comparator has arrived. I didn't know it had volume matching to 0.1db. Will write a diddy on this.
    9D9D31AC-B51C-4B29-B72C-8CC0FE0244EB.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 20
    • Epic Epic x 4
    • List
  5. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,375
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Charlottesville
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  6. Beefy

    Beefy Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2021
    Likes Received:
    1,741
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Canada
    f**k me, the sound of goalposts moving is almost deafening.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  7. bboris77

    bboris77 Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2015
    Likes Received:
    778
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So, @purr1n, if one was to compare the Magni 3+ to the Magni+, what would the main differences be?

    I still regret selling my Asgard 3 which paired wonderfully with the HD800S. I like how the HD800s sounds with the Magni 3+, so I was wondering if there would be any purpose in upgrading to the Magni+. I know that there is the protection circuit, which is good thing, but I was wondering if there are any sonic differences that you perceive.

    There's always the possibility of getting another Asgard 3 :)
     
  8. iFi audio

    iFi audio MOT iFi Audio

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2017
    Likes Received:
    1,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Many places.
    Home Page:
    Very cool stuff @purr1n. Congrats!
     
  9. Inoculator

    Inoculator Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2018
    Likes Received:
    3,522
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    I am only a few pages in on this (of 20 pages of discussion lol), but pretty entertaining stuff.
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I like throwing rocks at Amir; but TBH, I’m doing this for myself and SBAF - mainly because we care more about the subjective than measurements. The ABX comparator will be a nice tool to better minimize bias from sighted tests.

    Could care less what the folks at ASR think. Not that it matters. Lots of ASR readers here too.

    Will be fun to set this up at meets.
     
  11. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    12,596
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    But what amount of SINAD does that sound have?
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    I don’t think I can tell the + and 3+ apart in blind tests.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    • Like Like x 3
    • Epic Epic x 1
    • List
  14. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

    Pyrate Contributor
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2017
    Likes Received:
    11,010
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Philippines, The
    To be honest I doubt this does much to convince people who insist on doubting to reconsider their positions. The only way I think anyone who stands as a fanatical objectionable objectivist would be for someone to listen to a test system that they'd set up independently.

    Whether or not said system will be properly deployed or any tests conducted by skeptics carried out in good faith is another thing altogether.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 2
    • List
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

    Staff Member Pyrate BWC
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    89,934
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Padre Island CC TX
    This has already happened. Amir said he has done blind tests, did well 5-6 times, only to totally fail in subsequent attempts.
    [​IMG]

    None of this here on SBAF will convince people who have made up their minds already. I can hook up the Van Alstine ABX device, and the people who have not made up their minds will still find something wrong. The fact is, the power of confirmation bias will make it that they cannot hear a difference even if they tried such a test themselves. Also, hearing acuity differs from person to person and system to system. Some people may really not be able to hear the difference. Other people may need practice. For example, I cite this test here:
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/absolute-polarity-test.10019/

    As for people who may say this or that, but have not tried anything at all, this is what I think.
    [​IMG]

    There are the people who actually engage. Then there are people who sit on the soapbox who pretend they know. Nothing beats hands on experience.

    Yes, it's annoying. However, I'm use to it. Lots of cybersecurity auditors and assessors with a long list of fancy cert acronyms who have never done - but think they know. The cert business has pissed me off to the point where I decided not to renew any of mine - the fact is, certs like CISSP, CISA, CISM, GPEN, JISM have become used for schlonging. In fact, I won't work for any organization or company requiring such alphabet soup nonsense. A few interview questions would tell me more than any of that.

    One final thing to consider with what I do: I don't want to be the authority. I just don't have the time for being super thorough. The idea behind what I post is that I want to inspire people to do this themselves. I posit ideas. What I really want is for people to go for it themselves! Let the guys in academia, hobbyists, YTers, etc. do it.

    The reason we don't see more people run with it is because: 1) it's a pain in the ass to set up these tests - I'm still reading the manual for the Van Alstine ABX box; 2) there is no money in it.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 6
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
  16. artur9

    artur9 Facebook Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2016
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Along these lines, the latest TAS has a quote from the 70s. It's along the lines of

    "All turntables with wow and flutter within <delta> sound the same."

    Seems like the need to reduce differences to single numeric values in order to dismiss them has been going on a long time.

    The quote appears in a turntable review by Wayne Garcia and originated with
    Linn Products' Ivor Tiefenbrun
     
  17. jlucas

    jlucas Acquaintance

    Contributor
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Central Ohio
    I thought about getting the AVA ABX so I am interested to hear your thought on it. Also it is safe to use on tube devices that normally are not supposed to be powered on with no load on them?
     
  18. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

    Pyrate
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    1,474
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I might be wrong, but....hasn't Amir admitted he listens to shit way too loud and is partially deaf by now? No wonder he can't hear the difference between anything.
     
    • Agreed, ditto, +1 Agreed, ditto, +1 x 1
    • List
  19. TinEaredOne

    TinEaredOne New

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2022
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    USA
    Old thread, I know, but bumping because I just ordered a Heretic. I am just curious about the sound to my 55 year old ears - which are probably not as good as @purr1n's. Couldn't pass up the $59 experiment. My other HP amps are a Vali 2 and a Magni 3+. Most of the time, I prefer the Vali 2, which is running a simple JJ 6922. It is easy to listen to for long, long stretches no matter the music. Is anyone on SBAF listening to a Heretic? Is anyone enjoying one? Again, just curious.
     
  20. TinEaredOne

    TinEaredOne New

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2022
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Location:
    USA
    For those who are curious, the Heretic is exactly what I expected, which is a bit more resolving amplifier than my Vali 2 and I am not finding it bright, lean, or artificial. It just seems like a ridiculous bargain for what I paid for it. Schiit just keeps improving their products. If anything, it's just evidence that they do, in fact, keep working to perfect the sound. YEMV.
     

Share This Page