General Headphone Advice

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Walderstorn, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    If you do not mind looks too much look at the German Maestro 8.300. There are many options with the ear pads and stock they sound accurate, neutral-is and have enough low end to enjoy some Psy-Trance. I tried one in Essen and well for the retail price you get a lot of headphone that is actually intended for audio-professionals in all-round recording. About 120 Euros in Europe!
     
  2. Calibrationist

    Calibrationist New

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    Wow, I didn't expect to have a look a day later and already three responses, thanks a lot guys!

    I hadn't given the momentum 2 a lot of thought, I think I put it on sometime ago and found that my ears can barely fit inside the cups despite the changes they made. Well I went to the local sennheiser store and auditioned them today. They are not uncomfortable, but a bit crowded, I'd think that they wouldn't be much more comfortable than my current set. I guess I just have pretty big ears. Also about the sound, they are I think too fat for my taste, I really thought the bass is too much for a lot of music, well I can ofc always get used to some of it, but all in all, I didn't find them to be much if any improvement over K267. This kind of makes me think if I should rule out the 99 classics as they are probably only marginally more controlled in the bass region in they are at all. I found that the k267 are more clear, had better mids and less bass even on the highest bass boost (at least that's how I heard it during a short audition - and I never use the bass boost). Maybe I'm just a boring guy and the k267 is not too far from the oppo in sound signature? :) Well I just had a look and shit, they are much more subdued in the treble, not sure I could take any more subdued treble.

    Anyway, regarding the german maestro, while I'm always happy to venture into something different, I have to say, the FR measurements I have found online really don't inspire confidence, the look doesn't really matter but the maestro might be going too far still. Also I wouldn't be able to really get them cheap in the states and even though Iceland is in Europe, we're not in the EU which actually means importing from Europe mainland is not that cheap.

    I also went to the shure store but they didn't have the headphone in store, however it was in store at a different location and the guy offered to ship it to his store for me to try it even though I told him I'd be extremely unlikely to actually buy it, great service, I'll have to purchase something from them later! :) So tomorrow is shure audition hopefully, if I don't like that one I maybe should just take the leap for a talos or a ZMF classic (or vibro??). Because I think I can rule out pm3 for having too little treble and I'm afraid the 99 classics are too fun for a boring guy like me since the momentum is.
     
  3. New Reformation

    New Reformation Facebook Friend

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    I will go ahead and mention the NAD Viso HP50's. They have recently dropped in price, and been eclipsed in popularity by new offerings. Nevertheless, I am listening to them now and they sound pretty fantastic. They aren't that pretty to look at, but they are very similar to the HD650 tonally, except with an elevated bass.

    http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=-1&graphID[]=583&graphID[]=4283&scale=30

    I will note that the build quality is functionally solid, but they feel a little bit on the cheaper side. I am thinking about opening them one of these days to see if they can benefit from some modding (additional structural damping, alternate pads, etc.).
     
  4. JayC

    JayC Resident Crash Test Dummy

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    I actually would love to buy them if we could mod the headband :p
     
  5. Calibrationist

    Calibrationist New

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    Alright on with my research and decisions. Well I'll start by addressing the HP50, I'm afraid it lacks the comfort I want - even though I think I'd love the sound.

    I've been driving myself nuts with research etc, posting here trying to gather information. I feel like I have gathered all there is to gather and just have to go with where I lean based on what I know. Here it is, I'm leaning talos, actually just almost getting hyped from anticipation when I think of the Talos. There is something about them that's luring me in. They seem to have the least drawbacks, so far I see the sound praised (limited reviews, no measurements), the signature is something I believe I will like, they are t50rp mods which is something I always wanted to try, they should be solid in the comfort department (might even not get that hot with hybrid pads - and they are DEEP) and we'll just have to see about the isolation :)

    Amping is then the next step! And I guess more important for these than any of the others (except...ZMF which is basically the same :D).

    I'm very tempted to just go with the fulla still... I sure would like a reason not to or arguments as to why the fulla would not be enough for the headphones. My calculations are that the fulla would manage around 3.3Vrms which will be 114db out of these headphones. Now from my understanding both is quite sufficient. Let's assume that these calculations are correct and the fulla is therefore able to drive the headphones (that means provide the required current of 73mA due to being 220w at that 50ohm). Then what makes something else drive it "to its fullest extent"? I see this all over the place, someone who has ample power for his headphones already purchases something with even more power because the power somehow made it better. I'd be much more willing to accept that the device was operating more optimally in some other regard than providing electrical power. Because we can't break ohms law here. We have a load, we have a specific voltage and the current flowing into the headphones will be determined by these factors, having more available will do nothing.

    I might come off looking like an ass having said this - I hope that isn't the case though, I just want to start a discussion, and I am quite open to being taught something new. I won't argue the points I've already made any further. I'd love to hear why or why not I should go for the fulla (or you know whatever more powerful device you'd recommend to "drive them further :D)

    Last thing: yes I understand that the fulla close to being the absolute minimum here. However I don't expect to do much listening at 110 db (I intend to listen to music and have hearing in 10 years). One might even say that I'd be using the fulla "to its fullest extent"?
     
  6. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Keep one thing in mind with headphones and speakers. The frequency response may be measured as uneven and wonky, yet the headphones can still sound flat and accurate. CSDs are a better indication of what to expect.

    Consider frequency response graphs only an indication. I once was a vintage headphone collector. For a long time the AKG K240DF was my favourite headphone and Marvey measured it. It was a bit wonky yet did not sound that wonky. How was that possible? Consider build, dampening, ventilation, ear pads and other factors that influence a headphone's sound.
     
  7. chopstix

    chopstix Canali at HF (keeping him close)

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    'the future of headphones' with Tyll of innerfidelity

    1 hr.

    1st part to 30 min covers the recent rocky mtn audio show.

    just shy of 30 min onwards it gets very interesting into ways in which possible future tech might

    take that 'sound in our head' and extend it outwards to making the music sound more real, 3D and spacious.

     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  8. riker1384

    riker1384 Acquaintance

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    Where have they dropped in price? They look to be $249 everywhere I see. I think they've been around that for years. I got refurbs or $220 years ago.
     
  9. Rianoris

    Rianoris New

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    Santa Tyll. :)
     
  10. New Reformation

    New Reformation Facebook Friend

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    Sorry for the confusion. When I purchased my set they were priced at $300 pretty much everywhere. I noticed that they had come down to $250, but was not aware how long they had been that way.

    On a side note, I have recently opened up my set of HP50's to do some modding and quite like the sound they are giving me. Might post up a synopsis of my modifications sometime soon if folks are interested.
     
  11. WNovizar

    WNovizar Facebook Friend

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    Hi I got an offer about USD1500 for CD3000. Is that a good price?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2016
  12. cocolinho

    cocolinho Acquaintance

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    To sell yours for USD1500? or to buy one for USD1500?
    1 :GOOOOO!!, 2: RAAAAPE!!
    Honnestly I had the chance to hear these old Sonys, they are good but I'm sure you can do better with (much) less money. My opinion
     
  13. WNovizar

    WNovizar Facebook Friend

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    Lets just say I managed to get it lower at 1200
     
  14. cocolinho

    cocolinho Acquaintance

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    You do what you want to do with your money but for instance there is one for sale in EU for 600€ , few weeks ago one pair was sold for 400€ on HF...
     
  15. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    With box and manual included, everything in excellent condition: if you are a collector maybe. But the CD3000 is old and spare parts are rare.

    The headphones alone without all the standard kit, negotiate a fair price. When people want top Dollar they have to have all the standard kit and the product in excellent condition.
     
  16. WNovizar

    WNovizar Facebook Friend

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    Is that still for sale?
     
  17. cocolinho

    cocolinho Acquaintance

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    I took contact with the guy today just by curiosity.. and yes still available
     
  18. WNovizar

    WNovizar Facebook Friend

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    Link pls
     
  19. TMRaven

    TMRaven Friend

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    So I'm not sure I'll be keeping my Focal Elear. It doesn't tick all of my boxes as far as priorities go. Budget 3-500usd.

    Here's what I'm looking for:

    -Extremely comfortable with large earpad openings/very low clamping force/suspension strap or no pressure point buildup on top of head, and an open design for breathability.
    The AD-700 is top dog by a mile when it comes to this aspect. It might not have the earpad openings, but its combination of non-existent clamping force and wing-suspension system leaves it unmatched so far. HD800 is another example of being extremely comfortable. Its earpad openings are huge and give a natural feel. The headband does start to give a pressure buildup after about 90 minutes I say. The HE-X is another example of extreme comfort with huge earpad openings and a suspension strap, but the earpad material is a little itchy, and they're not the deepest. The HD650 is comfortable, but I find its pads slightly too small and clamping force slightly too high.


    -As much of an uncolored sound as possible with large soundstage and good extension in both bass and treble.
    I know, I know. That's what we all want in a headphone's sound, right? Basically I'm just saying I don't want potato sound. The AD700 is-- actually not bad at all in the sonics department. Its midrange is very uncolored, and its soundstage is very large. It does however lack in bass extension and fidelity in general. The HD800 was excellent in this regard, except its lower treble was too high for my liking. EQ'ing and modding it could only do so much. The HE-X also fits most criteria in this case, except it's anywhere from 1000 to 1500 dollars, and I'm not going to pay that much. The HD650 doesn't have as much extension in the bass and treble as I would like, even though everything else might as well be a ruler-flat line.


    I find the Elear's sound to be good, but the upper-midrange and lower treble depression bothers me a little bit. The earpad openings are great, but the overall weight of the phone leaves a pressure buildup after about 30 minutes.

    Ideally, if I could have a headphone like an HD800 but without the treble spike, or a super AD700 for around 3-500, that would be my goal.



    These are headphones I've had in the past:

    HD800-- best headphone I've tried in terms of combining sonics and comfort; currently too expensive and too spiky in lower treble
    HE-560-- I sold this because I found the HD800 to be better. Clamping force a little high but good comfort
    HE-400-- I sold this because I found the HE-560 to be better. A little heavy and too colored of a sound
    D2000-- I sold this because I found the HE-400 to be better. I won't be using a closed headphone again. Earpad openings slightly too small.
    DT990-- I sold this headphone because I liked the sound of the D2000 better. Overalll sound was too colored and earpads were too small and get grimy fast.
    LCD-X-- I sold this because it's just plain uncomfortable and very muted in the lower treble.
    AD700-- This headphone has been in my collection for the past 6 years and will never leave. It's too cheap to sell, it's to comfortable to sell, its midrange is decently balanced and uncolored.
     
  20. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    This is part of the Gordian Knot for me. The HD800 has that nasty treble spike. The 800S has that slight bloom in the bass. They both have a gorgeously wide soundstage, which I love, and is hard to find elsewhere outside of Stax or similar. However, they have some of that upper-mid suckout* (might be the wrong term) in the tuning which is an issue.

    Spending way too much on stats is fun as a concept, but it's pretty humid here, and I have worries about reliability. Happy to listen to other peoples' and love the sound, but still, unless I was stinking rich, it feels like a risk.

    Utopia? I can't justify spending that much right now.. but the timbre and tuning is delightful, and imaging is good. However, it also doesn't give me that exaggerated staging width that makes me moist, like the 800 and some stats- and I'd like that, if I were spending that much.

    Right now, HD650 and Jotenheim is a nice budget combo for me- the tuning is nice, and the brute force of the Jot punches through any veil. I suppose getting a second pair and modding them to sound clearer on more polite amps is a good option.

    I guess the point I am failing to make is that even if I spent a fortune on headphones, it probably wouldn't be perfect.. unless I was happy to live with babying some stats- and even then I would want the occasional dynamic driver bass fix. What's on the market right now is weird, and the price inflation of flagships absolutely does not reflect their quality or tuning. Let's not even begin to try and explain Audeze...

    So, yes, open to revolutionary suggestions if they're out there. If you will forgive a meme image..

    [​IMG]





    * I couldn't pin this one down, or describe it until @Muse Wanderer actually pointed out a specific test case- and I realised that it's what has been bugging me on headphones other than my HD650. The final movement of Bruckner's 5th is his favourite example- right at the end, the strings vanish against the brass in a lot of headphones- and once you hear it, you can't unhear it. He's right too- and it's really annoying. I owe him thanks, but also sort of want to throw things at him :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016

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