Comments on Profile Post by rhythmdevils

  1. rhythmdevils
    rhythmdevils
    Tiny TOTL headphones cost 4k or more. There's soooooo much less material and. manufacturing cost between a B&W Nautilus 803 or example vs an LCD-5 or Susvara or Utopia. And you know that B&W has a huge markup and isn't selling them with bare margins.
    Mar 7, 2022
  2. rhythmdevils
    rhythmdevils
    I don't see how R&D would be that much different, I think we are all just getting swindled becaue we are willing to pay that much, or enough people are (me included). it's really fucked up. Hopefully ETA keeps going and progressing and fucks up the market.
    Mar 7, 2022
    Ash1412, Jinxy245, crenca and 13 others like this.
  3. ColtMrFire
    ColtMrFire
    "a fool and his money are soon parted"
    Mar 7, 2022
    Tchoupitoulas likes this.
  4. pure5152
    pure5152
    I think people are just willing to pay for "better performance", irrespective of the actual cost it took to get that performance. I think companies like schiit and ETA (and some boutique manufacturers that just do some multiple over the bill of materials, like ECP and DNA) are unfortunately the major minority, but for the sake of consumer audio I wish them the best
    Mar 8, 2022
    Ash1412, Jinxy245, Cspirou and 5 others like this.
  5. nishan99
    nishan99
    Then you see the little tiny porkers costing 2k+.
    Mar 8, 2022
    rhythmdevils likes this.
  6. Merrick
    Merrick
    Agreed! I’m so glad a company like ETA is coming around to show the big dogs what can be done with a little elbow grease and an actual ear for what sounds good. When I started in this hobby the top tier of headphones were the HD800 and HE-6 and each of those was around $1k new and even that felt excessive. Now we have $4k+ headphones. WTF
    Mar 8, 2022
    Jinxy245, E_Schaaf and Tchoupitoulas like this.
  7. Merrick
    Merrick
    Once you dip your toe in the 2-channel world the cost of many headphone related components look questionable.
    Mar 8, 2022
  8. SoupRKnowva
    SoupRKnowva
    I’d say you’re only getting swindled if you don’t think they’re worth what you paid, but at that point I’d have to ask why you bought them. I agree though, once getting into speakers, headphone pricing is nuts.
    Mar 8, 2022
  9. SoupRKnowva
    SoupRKnowva
    Getting my acoustic zen adagios for 1800 bucks felt like the best deal I’ve ever gotten in audio
    Mar 8, 2022
    crenca, Tchoupitoulas and Merrick like this.
  10. Lyander
    Lyander
    Based on what I remember from my granddad's old rig (coloured by nostalgia probably) and store demos proper speakers are by far better value in terms of SRP vs BoM, though implementing them is another matter altogether. Sigh.
    Mar 8, 2022
  11. BenjaminBore
    BenjaminBore
    It's ludicrous and exploitative. Focal Utopia VS Focal Be Tweeter + headband & earpads price difference is in the multiple four figures. I'd bet the Utopia BOM isn't that much more than the Elear or Clear. The question is why are headphone customers more accepting of it than two channel customers? I guess it boils down to a lack of competition, or at least good competition.
    Mar 8, 2022
    rhythmdevils, Merrick and Lyander like this.
  12. Merrick
    Merrick
    I think part of it is that the high end headphone world is much younger than the high end stereo world. Even though headphones have been around for decades, they were usually seen as an afterthought to the stereo system. Now they’re being seen as valuable on their own and manufacturers are taking advantage.
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf and rhythmdevils like this.
  13. BenjaminBore
    BenjaminBore
    @Merrick you've given me a thought. Though headphones individually are priced egregiously the ceiling on total system cost is far far lower than a speaker system, particularly with what dealers stock. There're typically no monoblocks, preamps, subwoofers, multi channel etc. Due to space constraints, power requirements, and other inherent limitations. They may feel there's more budget on the table to extract.
    Mar 8, 2022
  14. E_Schaaf
    E_Schaaf
    My goal in life is for ETA to become the elephant in the room when anyone spends a ludicrous amount on a pair of headphones. Audio megacorps are BANKING on people's ignorance and willingness to buy into patented solutions to non-problems (which are normally just novel ways to cut costs), new tech that's not well implemented, visual appeal, etc.
    Mar 8, 2022
    Ash1412, Jinxy245, pure5152 and 4 others like this.
  15. E_Schaaf
    E_Schaaf
    Working high end audio retail completely disillusioned me regarding price v performance in this industry. The final nail in the coffin was Focal asking $2k to repair a Utopia headband when the company I worked for bought Utopias by the hundreds at far less than even that (despite selling them at list price). Fat margins on the product isn't enough, they want to massively profit on repairs too. Scummy AF
    Mar 8, 2022
    Ash1412, Jinxy245, pure5152 and 4 others like this.
  16. E_Schaaf
    E_Schaaf
    I bet the actual build cost difference between a Clear and Utopia is tens of dollars, not thousands. Same for LCD2C vs LCD4, any cheap vs expensive HFM, the list goes on...
    Mar 8, 2022
  17. Merrick
    Merrick
    @BenjaminBore I think you're onto something there! Additionally, there's a level of pride that comes with hifi ownership and I'm sure there are plenty of people who want to feel like their headphone purchase is equivalent to high end speakers. So instead of spending $4k on speakers, which wouldn't seem so outrageous given that market, they spend $4k on headphones and feel really good about it.
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf, rhythmdevils and E_Schaaf like this.
  18. Merrick
    Merrick
    I'm not opposed to companies making a profit; by making their top tier products nearly unobtanium, the brands may think they're creating prestige but I think they're really alienating more customers than they realize in the long run. Or maybe the highest end stuff is designed to make the next highest cost item look much more reasonable?
    Mar 8, 2022
  19. BenjaminBore
    BenjaminBore
    There're few more motivations that come to mind: 1. Prestige product to attract buyers to their brand and other products 2. To extract as much as possible from the whales (financial-marks) 3. As an audio accessory for the orfas league 4. Frustrated enthusiasts like us
    Mar 8, 2022
  20. BenjaminBore
    BenjaminBore
    Another way to look at it is that there are simply people willing to spend that kind of money, for various reasons, and a manufacturers headphone range is artificially priced to maximise what the addressable market will bear at different budgets. Whilst trying to find every way to create the appearance of differentiation and premium-ness to falsely justify it. ie capitalism
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf and rhythmdevils like this.
  21. BenjaminBore
    BenjaminBore
    @E_Schaaf If you HAD to build a headphone in these price ranges without inflating pricing what could that headphone theoretically be, without resorting to audio-jewellery.

    Is there conceivably any tech, design, labour demand, or materials that could justify it?
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf and E_Schaaf like this.
  22. rhythmdevils
    rhythmdevils
    I think one factor may actually be the size itself. Psychologically, it changes how you view headphones vs speakers. Speakers are also communal devices vs headphones which are personal. The size and personal nature of headphones I think allows them to be sort of fetishized. You can collect headphones, you can't nearly as easily collect speakers.
    Mar 8, 2022
  23. rhythmdevils
    rhythmdevils
    I think this is why people will pay so much more...the fetishization of headphones.

    This would make a good thread, maybe I will copy all the responses to a thread.
    Mar 8, 2022
  24. E_Schaaf
    E_Schaaf
    @BenjaminBore field coil drivers with included high spec LPS, fully CNC'd enclosure/headband made from customer-chosen materials, passive acoustic FR contouring to customer specs with free retunes to the original owner for life, lifetime warranty on all parts, + accessories package w/ multiple custom earpad designs, travel case, cables.
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf, BenjaminBore and Merrick like this.
  25. E_Schaaf
    E_Schaaf
    3DP or injection molded version with oem headband and without some of the extra accessories would probably be half the cost or less.
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf and BenjaminBore like this.
  26. BenjaminBore
    BenjaminBore
    @rhythmdevils That's an interesting way to look at it. People are attached to headphones in a way I don't think they are speakers. We physically interact with headphones regularly, hell we "wear" the damn things. There's an element to them like a watch or sneakers. With far greater potential for visual design variance that gives each one a unique character promoting personal attachment.
    Mar 8, 2022
    Cryptowolf, Merrick and rhythmdevils like this.
  27. Merrick
    Merrick
    Also it's much easier to collect a variety of headphones for different sounds, most people do not have more than one serious speaker system, and the system is built entirely around the speaker. Headphone systems are more variable/modular.
    Mar 8, 2022
    rhythmdevils and BenjaminBore like this.
  28. rhythmdevils