All of HE-5XX's bullshit (that I noticed)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by takato14, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. Rthomas

    Rthomas Friend

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    Hi Marv,

    Do Audeze drivers have this issue as well?

    I'm wondering whether it was this ''smearing effect'' that made the LCD4 sound just a bit less clear than the Utopia even with both headphones EQed to the same target. It wasn't by much but it was easily noticeable.
     
  2. crenca

    crenca Friend

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    I no longer pay much attention to this sub $500 price point much because the compromises down here are so severe. Seems like the HD6XX, or perhaps the OOP PM-3 is the closest to an "all rounder", but even then if someone says "I need bass" or "I need treble"...

    On the other hand I admit I like the 'bombastic', forth right language because you simply won't get it most anywhere else and one does not have to "read between the lines" of the normal audio review
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I try to look at things from various perspectives and I don't get it right for everybody. It's impossible. In respect to the HD560S, I think the regular audience here "got it" in terms of what I was trying to communicate. I think maybe 50% of /r/headphones (I try not to say Reddit because /r/headphones is sort of a different world) got it. Part of this is experience.

    I don't know how many times I've had to say that I am a dynamic driver guy, specifically HD600/HD650 for sub $500; but that doesn't mean I should tell everyone that planars suck. Likewise I personally detest NOS DACs, but that shouldn't stop me from being able to review NOS DACs or DACs with NOS modes and provide meaningful information. And most certainly it doesn't mean that I should shit on NOS from technical point of view, pointing out its failings with messed up frequency and phase response.

    The concern is when this attitude, and we've already seen this plenty on ASR, is based on solely on measurements. We already know how can measurements "lie" - loaded with confirmation bias (the other way) - that once one sees a "bad" measurement, it will never sound quite right again.

    The other aspect is context. It strains credulity that one would be indignant at the cost-cutting measures of a $220 HiFiMan, which as @sphinxvc said, has the reputation of a Batman villain.

    Not trying to be a dick, but I would ask you these questions: have you taken a peek into the innards of the Ananda? (I think you would be surprised); have you actually heard or handled the HE5XX?; did you actually consider the $220 price point of the HE5XX?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Yes, all planars type headphones have issues with this. It's just that with HE5XX, it happens higher up in level. Here are visualizations where I lower the floor to -55db.

    LCD2C L.jpg
    FPC LCD3 L.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    For reference, here are some HFMs

    HE400i soft L.jpg
    HE4XX L.jpg

    Finally, here is HE5XX, apples-to-apples compared to the rest.
    FPC HE5XX L.jpg
     
  6. Ash1412

    Ash1412 Friend

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    You got a CSD for Verums? I know we don't like to mention the brand anymore for good reason but the Verums are kinda the most direct competitor/upgrade.
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    No problem mentioning it. The way I see it is that people can make their own decisions.

    Verum 1, apples-apples, 55db floor
    Verum L.jpg
     
  8. Gabeh

    Gabeh New

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    Even our humble local forum StereoNet Australia implements this feature and has never bugged out on me.
    Poor user experience is never to be excused and blamed on the user. This is precisely what drives users away from certain platforms. Never blame a user for poor design choices.
     
  9. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    For reference, the results of two traditional dynamic drivers, HD600 and Utopia.

    Because of the nature of the number crunching, these is a tendency for noise to fill the buckets (FFT bins) in a certain way.

    FPC HD600R.jpg
    FPC Utopia L.jpg
     
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Stereonet is a professional media outfit with a million visits a month. This isn't. It's daily operations are run by 3.5 people on a volunteer part-time basis with the lights being kept on by a handful of sponsors and donations, where most of the money it is blown on gear for the loaner programs, and then sold off to cheap to the members, or sometimes destroyed or given away at fire sale prices if the gear sucks. It's not exactly a popular audio forum either.

    I've posted way more than anyone else. Rarely have I had a problem. When hiccups have occurred or I closed the browser window by accident, I've almost always been able to recover progress to within five minutes.

    I suspect the post was merely an excuse for not posting or user error. People come and people go. I don't keep track. The expectation that forum software will work like an online word processor is not reasonable.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  11. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I have a tendency to write way too much when I'm bored or fixating on something, often at the expense of intelligibility, and have a looooot of posts accrued over the years that have never seen the light of day. Possibly to the surprise of others (to lean into understatement) I've deliberately scrapped a great many posts because I felt they contributed nothing to the discussions currently ongoing only to find that forum software held onto them despite my deliberately trying to kill the drafts. It's frustrating!

    TL;DR speaking as someone who admires the work tak's invested over the years and holds respect borne therefrom, I think anyone who's struggled with XenForo for more than a few weeks should know not to rely too much on this tiny text box :D (my admittedly long-winded write ups all start out as .txt files in Google Drive)


    Trying to keep on-topic, impressions I've written of the one planar I've had at home for an extended period of time (HE-4XX, intolerable for more than a few minutes at higher volume levels) could be explained by the "motion blur" analogy drawn by @E_Schaaf (f'ing love it, it makes a lot of sense), but does this also perhaps account for the poorer delineation of images in the headspace and the pillowy macrodynamics many modern orthodynamics seem predisposed towards? Could just be my never having gotten a good upstream even in demo settings but even the big-boy planars like the LCD-X/HE1000 v2/Susvara etc never felt as visceral as I'd like.

    Might have missed it but do the old HiFiMANs that are known to hit like dry asphalt share similar characteristics? How about in burst response?
     
  12. E_Schaaf

    E_Schaaf MOT: E.T.A Headphones

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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    The motion-blur or smearing buries plankton and renders instruments in a vague way in terms of localization in the headstage. And as I mentioned, it does contribute to a more liquid and connected presentation.

    As far as the soft macrodynamics, that exists in 'stats too, and seems to express itself more with thinner diaphragms. HFM and Audeze with their TOTL have gone with thinner and thinner diaphragms, but Audeze has been able to maintain an edge in macrodynamics. The only difference I can think of is finer traces on the Audezes. The OG HFM HE-5/6 with their thicker diaphragms were hefty sounding, but they needed a power amp.
     
  14. YMO

    YMO Chief Fun Officer

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    Save your long posts in Word documents, make it nice looking, and then post when ready. That's what I do with my infamous long posts.
     
  15. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    The latest HE1000se has the most tactile and focused sound of their entire egg-shaped headphones but that came with a fucked up FR, otherwise it would be an amazing cans (or eggs?) for $3500. But they still get diffused if you listen really loud, like say close to 100dB or something.

    They used to advertise them as having the stronger Susvara magnets but then they start saying (in the HF thread) they actually increased their efficiency (5dB) not by using a stronger magnets but by using an even lighter diaphragm. They just updated the magnets shape and distribution for better acoustic qualities.


    The older thicker (and stiffer) diaphragms didn't need the precise tracing for better control over them to make them behave more like a piston producing a more orderly and tactile sound waves.

    Those thinner diaphragms flex like a mofo down low in frequency and need a more fine tracing to get them behave more like a piston. Otherwise the sound (bass in particular as it's longer wavelength hence more noticeable) will get to your eardrums incrementally giving the sense of soft attacks.

    It's not just about speed of delivery but how orderly the sound waves are. A slow ass metal coated dynamic (ultrasone studio signature) are more tactile to my eardrums than the STAX L700 or the HE1000v2.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    We'll I'm moving on. Feel free to rip the HE5XX or HiFiMan as much as you guys want. I won't interrupt anymore.

    Just know that none of you have owned the HiFiMan headphone that took the cake for shit construction as I had. It was glorious sounding though, so glorious that I had it held it together with tape, glue, and screws.
     
  17. Aurastys

    Aurastys New

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    Yes, and yes. While the build quality of the Ananda doesn't exactly reek of quality craftsmanship, I certainly don't feel like it's going to magically fail like the HE-5XX almost definitely is going to on me, even from basic use. I'll keep my arguments on the sound fidelity of the HE-5XX and the issues of major resonances on poorly cross-tensioned drivers to myself for fear of being witch-hunted, but, I have to say that the build and fitment issues alone really make this not worth it, especially when Hifiman's own HE-400i 2020 Version doesn't suffer these issues, and is cheaper (and sounds far less smeared, though a bit edgy imo).

    Did you happen to be talking about;[​IMG]

    Still have it sitting around somewhere in a box, probably accruing a few new cracks a week in the chassis.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Close. It was the HE Audio HiFiMan Jade.

    P.S.

    There's no witch hunt to be afraid of. It's about being earnest and not thinking people who disagree are your enemy. A lot of folks don't get this. This isn't HF. This isn't /r/headphones.

    I get the lack of polish issues. They've existed since every HFM going back ages and have gotten worse with successive models on the low end.

    The thing is if you make assertions, and then refuse to talk when honestly being asked what, why, or to clarify, then why bother even posting here in the first place?

    No one has ever been tarred and feathered for having an opinion, only a bad attitude.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  19. Aurastys

    Aurastys New

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    The old Jade 1.x? Not technically a Hifiman product, but, yeah. I had a 1.2b for a bit and just basic handling of the headphone to get it on the head often damaged it. Still, man, that sound profile... Need to get another one.
     
  20. takato14

    takato14 God of Ruin

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    Completely false. All of my spectrogram results are at -60 and I can immediately think of 3 planars at varying ages and price points whose results are completely clean from 2kHz and up right off the top of my head.

    Even the HE-500 graph I posted a mere page ago shows such a result. My noise floor is good to as low as -70dB, -80 if you're willing to accept a bit of noise from the mic. I'll grab -80dB plots of the HE500 when I return home.

    Where do you get the information to make a claim such as this? Drum skin resonance does not produce meaningful SPL unless the film is under a considerable amount of tension.

    Imagine stretching a rubber band out and plucking it with a finger. Note how long it vibrates for. Now bring its ends closer together, lowering the tension, and pluck again. It will vibrate at a lower amplitude and at a lower frequency.

    After a certain number of times repeating this process, plucking it will no longer produce uniform vibrations across its surface, and it will not produce any significant sounds from the vibrations it does produce.
     

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