Am I too spoiled by headphones to enjoy speakers? Answer is NO!

i feel the exact same way @Dukja .I don't feel the intimacy with speakers btw have you tried outofyourhead that software is great for simulating really good speakers. I used the hd800 to simulate 50k speakers and they indeed sounded well like speakers XD

but the thing is when i switched back i easily could tell that is what i wanted.

That is too say i still have not tried or auditioned really expensive or great speakers except my cousins willson audio speakers he has for his home cinema which were still not as good as my HD800's

 

Thanks for the sharing, although I hope that is not the case.

Since I got very familiar sounding from Martin Logan LX16 (although the focusing and detail is not as good as HD800), it only need some good bass to support it. So one way is to get a nice subwoofer to go with it.

However, I would rather get a nice 2- or 3-way speaker with similar ribbon tweeter and good mid/bass to be done with. That is why Philharmonitor BMR looks interesting (as long as it sounds as people post. )

I'll try to hanging some blanket on the wall tonight just for the fun of it...

And for sure this journey makes me cherish my headphone setup even more...

 

After exchanging quite a few emails with Dennis @ Philharmonitor, I feel like to try some preliminary room treatment. And I happened to remember the frequency sweeping test tone that I used long time ago with my headphone setup. I tested it and do find improvement by hanging a few blanket at the back wall of the speakers and right behind me. My speakers are about good 10 fee from side walls so I didn't do any treatment there.

With some A/B test, I feel the early reflection from the back wall seems to be the another major reason for my "odd feeling" with Sierra. This is one of the few night that I can focus on music and not the sound signature, which is very good thing to say...

 

This Sierra journey is really fruitful for me. Now I learned about how room affect speaker's sound. More importantly, I know my ear is quite trustworthy. Although I cannot explain what was wrong in the beginning, but eventually I found out why.

Last night when I research more about posts on Sierra, I got this one:

Then a review on Sierra-1 at Ascend Acoustic's website:

These honest and precious info hit the nail of my "problem" with Sierra1! While I experience great details and imaging plus good amount of bass, there was something ("flesh") missing that I couldn't tell in the beginning. Now looking back all my own post and improvement I made, I am certain the recessed mid-range is the root problem. The room reflection only aggravated the issue, and the treatment provides some remedy.

This is also explains why LX16, although not a the same tier, but address the issue immediately. It may not have pinpoint imaging and bass extension, but it does not "suffer" the mid-range issue.

I never realized that mid-range is so crucial in my satisfaction. Most of the praise of Sierra-1 seems totally neglect this issue, which unfortunately is major to me.

 

My tuppence worth:

I thought this was one of the most striking questions I've seen asked on the merits, or otherwise, of headphones. Due to living somewhere very noisy I have just spent seven years exclusively listening to music with IEMs and headphones(!). Then, two months ago, I moved home to a nice quiet place and, after unpacking so many f*cK*ng cardboard boxes that I want to scream, I finally set up some speakers again. There is no comparison. Headphones can be beautiful, detailed, engaging, revelatory and oddly addictive but even *extremely* modest amplification and loudspeakers in a quiet environment beats seven shades of shit out of headphones when it comes to offering a naturalistic rendition.

I still love my 1st gen circumaural Momentums, appreciate their excellence and consider them to be a good purchase (I'm using them now cos it's very late here and I don't want to annoy my neighbours) but they are thoroughly outclassed by my budget Roth Audio bookshelf speakers.

 

After knowing what was the weak point of Sierra and addressing the room issue, I have been listening to Sierra-1 powered by Rotel. I have just switched to Aleph3 tonight for a change. Since it only rated for 30W/ch @ 8ohm, I didn't use it for Sierra-1 much. After Aleph3 truly warmed up, I was amazed by how wonderful it made Sierra-1 sing. The top end is crystal clear and yet sweet with "graceful" texture. The focusing was accurate and clear. Soundstage is wide and bass is tight and yet authoritative. I just love it!! This makes me more interested in higher wattage amp at similar level. Current looking shows that Odyssey Cyclops may be a good candidate.

And Dennis' New Philharmonitor is on order. If Ascend gave me a few more days, I may have a shoot out. Finger crossed!

 

To me its complete opposite. Speakers offer way more than headphones in price range. Headphones are very simple and easy understanding pieces of equipment and do a very simple job. Speakers are more complex and much more variables to take place. You have drivers,crossover slopes and frequency selection, crossover components of choice, cabinet design, room interactions and your chain of electronics,ect. Many things to study and understand.

Only of advantage of headphones is what mentioned above(room issues,crossovers,ect.)but, everything else from very little to no harmonic distortions, stereo layering, low level information and separation, smoothness of driver delivery(minimum to no driver decay), imaging,ect. Is far greater with speakers than headphones.

Don't have to spend multi-kilo bucks either to have a good speaker system as well. I had many different speakers and headphones and love both for their purposes and jobs. I heard 100k speaker systems and other boutique systems and to be honest when comes to avg audiophile and speaker stuff, they're mediocre at best with most but, that's because all the audiophiles are usually old geezers with deep pockets that's in it to be part of the kool kids on the block and, have very little understanding how audio works or understands basics of speaker design,room,ect.

Like anything out in the world,knowledge is power and learning lot of things while remaining open minded and doubtful questioning everything you learn a lot.

But, after saying all that I love both headphones and speakers. I just don't and can't own multiple pairs of stuff anymore. One speaker and one headphone type of person anymore. It's just bout the music.

 

wow you already ordered New Philharmonitor. Decided not to get BMR? they are pretty giant

 

@ Rex, thanks for the sharing. Doing my phd in wave propagation and numerical modeling, I found speaker is an interesting subject for my future simulation fun.
Just because speaker setup is much more complicated, that makes that headphone with the similar cost should perform a lot more better, at least from an engineering point of view. However, I do have very high expectation of this coming New Philharmonitor. I have done my homework knowing the tradeoff and had quite long chain discussion with Dennis. It is my best "educated guess" and to be verified soon.

@ uncola, I would like to get BMR someday, but its weight and size give me a pause atm. And I hate to pay more for the custom cabnet. The idea is to know more about XO and may be doing some DIY afterward.

 

I got the New Phil in house and have a listen for a few nights. It sounds quite different from Sierra-1: much fuller sound, especially the mid with solid deep and good bass. Surprisingly, I was kind of miss Sierr-1's high from its dome tweeter. Although it was bright but it has some interesting flavor in it, like a wild pretty young girl. New Phil's high is much like elegant lady, neutral and refined. However, I miss some liveliness (or wildness) from Sierra.

No matter what, the tonal tilt of Sierra-1 is quite apparent comparing to NP. I got much complete and fuller spectrum from NP with solid bass, so Sierra-1 will probably go back to Ascend soon.

(Can I attach photo at SBAF?)

 

Wow I'm surprised because real is supposed to have high extension. I guess the crossover is designed pretty neutral in NP because Dennis Murphy is a classical guy? To attach image you have to upload it to a host like imgur then use the url

 

RAAL is suppose to have nice high with good extension and it is doing well at NP. My comments shouldn't be read as negative, but to show a comparison to different tweeter. When I listen to the sin wave sweep, I was amazed that I didn't hear any apparent peaks at upper-mid to high frequency, which I often get from all my headphones.

And the bass was indeed tight and deep for New Phil. When I just switch from Sierra-1 to NP, I though Sierra-1 has more "air volume" at bass, although I always felt it is light weighted. However, after I use pink noise to do the SPL matching, NP's bass is much deeper and tighter with good volume and impact. And yet the entire sonic spectrum is well balanced and I can hear the "full spectrum" with any distracting peaks or nulls. The tonality is very natural to me.