Apple Music Announces Lossless - MQA is Toast

Discussion in 'Tales from the Bully Pulpit' started by purr1n, May 17, 2021.

  1. Pancakes

    Pancakes Almost "Made"

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    My brain said the same thing a few months back before the Golden One video came out. Tried out Tidal and it sounded weird to me so I went with Qobuz. After the vid came out I had the "aha" moment of understanding.
     
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  2. purr1n

    purr1n Building Magnis part time because it's peaceful.

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    Five bucks to anyone who noticed my tongue and cheek tweak to the MQA logo and can explain its significance.
     
  3. YMO

    YMO it's not drinking alone if you're on Zoom

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    I don't think it is a big blow against Qobuz due to Apple Music and Qobuz are targeting two separate audiences.

    What will be a major blow is Roon/BubbleUPnP/USB Audio Player Pro/mConnect not able to directly access Tidal and Qobuz, and the other lossless streaming services will not allow other APIs to access their services directly into their platforms.

    That would be a major blow to those apps plus to the user. I just hope it will never get to that point because I do believe the more options to access your services in both regular streaming and bit-perfect streaming is a good thing.
     
  4. scblock

    scblock Friend

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    Can't have any of that pesky pre-ringing, so minimum phase with excessive post-ringing is the answer.
     
  5. crazychile

    crazychile Eastern Iowa's Spiciest Pepper

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    Yeah this. RPi / Roon integration is what will keep me with Qobuz for the foreseeable future. Sound quality and simplicity are about tied as far as my priorities, with diversity of catalog being third.
     
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  6. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    I did not know MQA even had a logo. That represents how much I ever cared about it.
     
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  7. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    The original logo has increasing amplitude of the wave = yea MQA is growing.

    Purr1n logo decreasing amplitude of wave = dying yea! as in flatlining, haha
     
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  8. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Airplay will help with CD quality lossless streaming from Apple Music to Pi based streamer for the time being.

    If Apple Music does come with CD and Hi-Res streaming in India, it will be first streaming service to do so and Apple is charging just 99 INR for subscription here in local currency which comes around roughly $1.3/month and to be able to stream CD quality music for $1.3/month, I’m excited.
     
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  9. crenca

    crenca Friend

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  10. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    actually none of the subscription services are profitable. Spotify, Tidal, Qobuz and Deezer will go extinct at some point. You can’t run an unprofitable business forever. Tidal is still alive only because people keep investing in it for some reason.

    Apple, Amazon and Google Music, but more so the first two can take a loss because having subscribers brings people in to their consumer universe. Which they then make money off.

    Buying music is far more profitable. But people like streaming because you can get a shit ton of music for a fraction of the cost of buying music.

    I really hope upnp becomes possible with Apple or Amazon music so it can integrate seamlessly with the pi2aes but it seems unlikely. The future of the Pi2aes is uncertain :(

    though I agree with @schiit at least in the past, Amazon sounded off to me. I haven’t compared again since. I only use it for music discovery. Which I think it’s the best at since Google Play was canceled. I’ve never understood the love of Spotify’s interface or music discovery algorithms.

    edit: and since the main attraction to Qobuz, Tidal and Deezer is lossless steaming, and they likely cannot cut their subscription costs to 9.99$/month especially Tidal who has to pay the MQA licensing fee, I think this all means the death of these services is probably going to happen sooner than later as they will now start hemorrhaging subscribers to the cheaper, equally lossless Apple and Amazon. Most people don’t own a PI2aes unfortunately.
     
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    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  11. Merrick

    Merrick A lidless ear

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    Qobuz charges how much for hi-res streaming? They were already trying to undercut Tidal’s pricing with their annual plan, Apple just pulled the floor out from under them. I know Qobuz also sells hi-res and lossless music, which Apple has said they’re not going to do, but on the streaming side Apple is way ahead with their catalog.

    Also why do you think that UPNP/DLNA apps will stop being able to access Tidal and Qobuz? Do you mean if this move forces them out of business? I do hope Apple updates airplay to support higher-res streaming.
     
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  12. YMO

    YMO it's not drinking alone if you're on Zoom

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    $150 per year...but Qobuz is aimed for the audiophile market who think $1000 RCA cables makes a difference in their audio chain. Apple Music benefits best with the Apple hardware ecosystem, which I refuse to spend any money on. Also, most people who uses Apple Music aren't part of the audiophile market that Qobuz is targeting.

    Do not expect Apple to be cool with third-party apps accessing their services like Tidal and Qobuz (which is a HUGE deal for people like me, since it gives me crazy flexibility on how I access these services). I never said Tidal and Qobuz will go out of the streaming game if Apple joins in the game, but if Tidal and Qobuz goes out of the streaming game then that is a heavy loss on consumers like me who love the flexibility of Tidal and Qobuz in allowing other companies to access their services.

    Don't expect Apple Music to be on Roon/BubbleUPnP/etc., Apple as usual is normally a closed ecosystem with the goal of getting you in it.

    Airplay from my review isn't bit-perfect audio, it is an consumer standard. I don't want to jump more hoops to get bit-perfect streaming which you have other apps that can do that work for you with access to Tidal and Qobuz if using Apple Music you must go on the airplay wagon (which is a consumer standard for now, not an audiophile standard).
     
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  13. daniellistens

    daniellistens Acquaintance

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    I am tentatively feeling that this is going to be a good thing.

    What Apple did with the AirPod Pros was pretty good. I find them enjoyable to listen to, and they aren’t trying reinvent the wheel. The AirPod Pros aren’t strongly coloured.

    I just want good sound replication.

    I wish corporation’s didn’t get to control how music sounds but that’s the way of our world. I always thought it would be fun to have an international body that would be independent and provide standardization for the music industry worldwide. LOL Obviously I like big Government.
     
  14. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    This really should all happened long ago. First we were all strapped with DSL connections and such. Then we were limited to be mobile with slow phone connections. Now 5G is the rave that will be soon coming to your town. Although there is already options for lower quality while on cell networks on your phone from streaming services. Not just to protect download times, but the bandwidth we pay for each month. Do we need full res on our Bluetooth headset to keep our minds occupied while we exercise? Well, maybe some of us do. I digress. My point being is that the speed of the internet grew faster than anyone thought and made satellite radio nearly obsolete - so bad that the two competing companies had to merge and even get bought out by a satellite TV company (Dish), and now AT&T is trying to dump Direct TV.

    Anyway, my point being that streaming TV in HD and now 4K is a thing, but that is compressed and likely not full 4K until the end. However, us audiophiles care. A 16/44.1 file is SO small compared to one episode in HD of Schitt's Creek. But...but...HDMI is protected. Can't go anywhere. And most of the 16-bit stuff if wanting to be bit-perfect has no SCMS code anymore. And SCMS was easy to get around anyway. The loophole was labeling your device as a Pro Audio device where SCMS does not apply, and granted. Or, just have a box that strips the SMCS code.

    But why would we copy music anymore if there is streaming in full definition (noticed "full" not "hi" here) at a reasonable cost?

    In my Mass Communications class back in 1996 or so, the professor went on about plasma TV's that were in Japan at the time for $50k, but they were going to be the wave of the future. He also discussed how technology over time will become easily accessible and in more devices. This has stayed with me because he was right on both accounts and still continuing. Wireless printing no longer requires and IT Networking certification. We now have computers in everything (TV's, refrigerators, thermostats) including light switches in your house. But there was no rule about quality, as only quality would go up if, and big if, IF the consumer demanded it.

    The consumer did not demand quadrophonic, or HDCD, or DVD-A, or SACD, or MQA. These were all "because we can" products. The beneficiaries of MQA was more to the licensees and the copyright holders.

    This is not like color TV were we HAVE to have the equipment at home. Everyone has this equipment. So Spotify is the odd man out and I agree only a matter of time before they fold. The consumer at this point WILL demand it because they can get higher quality for the same price somewhere else, like within the Apple eco system.
     
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  15. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    I feel with Apple coming in, a lot of new people will join the hobby. May be a good time for those dongle DAC/AMP manufacturer as many will buy their first DAC to experience Hi-RES music after watching those YouTube reviews on Apple Music Hi-Res streaming
     
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  16. Stuff Jones

    Stuff Jones Friend

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    What does this do for the already minuscule royalty payments for most artists?
     
  17. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    Music is a free commodity now. Musicians have to find other ways to make money. Sadly.
     
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  18. Ksaurav402

    Ksaurav402 Friend

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    Lot of Independent artists and groups in India are now performing in front of sell out crowds after Spotify and Apple Music came to India. It has given them
    Platform to reach to millions here. So even though royalty may not be great but these companies have enabled artists to reach to millions.
     
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  19. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    For small artists, pay-to-download (Bandcamp for example) is way easier to scale up without risk, and probably way more profitable, than doing a run of CDs used to be. But I guess the all-you-can-eat streaming business model will kill that sooner or later. Or maybe there will continue to be a thriving indie scene, separate from the big service providers.

    Anyway, trying to make a living as a musician was always a non-starter for 99.9% of those who tried, since way before CDs were invented. My take on life is that it's better not to ruin something you love by turning it into a career...

    @purr1n what's the one on the right? Betamax?
     
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  20. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils Best SBAF member of all time

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    Tidal and Qobuz will go out of the game especially now. And you are unfortunately a tiny insignificant (to profits) fraction of the market. I think people like us are a tiny fraction of even Qobuz’s customer base. I could not figure out how to get upnp and PI2AES set up without help from super geeks here. Most people don’t care enough to even know about this stuff much less figure it out.
     
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