ATC Monitors - 2x2-way plus sub or 2 larger?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by GoodEnoughGear, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    These two combinations are almost identically priced here:

    2 x SCM50ASL

    or

    2 x SCM20ASL plus 2 x SCM0.1/12SL

    The 50's have the dedicated superdomes whereas the 20s have the SL spec mid/bass driver with a 75mm dome grafted onto it. Reputedly the 50s and 20s are voiced similarly. Both have the new S-Spec tweeter.

    The 50s roll off at 70Hz to 39Hz at -6dB, where the subs will take you down to 18Hz, and you also get flexibilityof placement with the subs.

    Is there a clearly better path, or is it a mire of tradeoffs?
     
  2. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    I have the SCM19 passives (similar to the 20s) currently running with a REL sub. I would personally go for the 50s - that mid dome is special and something that the SL driver just can’t replicate. Also the bass should be pretty good from these considering they’re active and ported as well. Separate sub integration to me is a bitch that never sounds quite as good as an integrated bass driver, but you could still add one later in this case if you really want more deep bass - you can’t add that mid-dome later however.

    Edit: This is coming from someone who is not a bass head. With room gain I expect you would easily get down into the low 30s if not high 20s with the 50ASLs. That would be plenty low for me but YMMV obviously.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  3. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Get the SCM50ASL.
    More surface area due to the 9 inch woofer, and the dedicated midrange with a 9kg magnet will give you a much better sound.
    Keep in mind that the 9 inch woofer plays up to 380hz, that will give you a fuller, more relaxed and coherent sound, the SCM20ASL is a great speaker but a proper 3 way will always be better than a 2 way with a sub, a 6 inch driver sounds thin and dry if you bring it down to 80-100hz because, even if you relieve it of pumping low bass, it will have to move air much more violently than the bigger 9 inch woofer.
     
  4. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    I'd say dome up, go for the SCM50ASL.

    What you're trading off is absolute bass extension to more bass headroom and better mids.
     
  5. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Cool, thanks. My gut was telling pointing me to the 50s but my head wanted to argue :).
     
  6. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    I'm not a basshead either, so this makes a lot of sense. That said, I listened to these bass test clips and I seem to hear pretty well under 60Hz. I wasn't considering room gain as a factor. Thanks.
     
  7. murphythecat

    murphythecat GRU-powered uniformed trumpkin

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  8. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Also agree with the others. I love my Dynaudio BM15As.
     
  9. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

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    It’s a trade off and depends on usage. The best answer if you’re debating ATC tradeoffs is to buy something else.

    ATC 20 are nearfields and avoid the not anywhere close to normal British bass by not having bass. Integrating with a sub will be difficult and who knows how good the ATC subwoofer is. The SCM20ASL is ATC’s most normal sounding speaker too regardless of detail.

    Bigger ones are not near fields and will have the detailed dome mids but the disgusting low end.

    They’re both good but honestly the best of both world is to buy something else. Neumann and many other companies make two and three way powered monitors with soft dome tweeters that are much more normal sounding (aka better) than anything ATC.
     
  10. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    If the target budget is 15kUSD, then Neumann indeed is also a compelling option. The KH310's go for around 3kUSD or a bit more and you get a soft dome tweeter and midrange with a sealed box woofer. If you want to go crazy, mount them each on a KH870 sub for a 13kUSD grand total. At the same time 8kUSD get you a pair of KH420's which are ported and should go down to 30Hz in free field.

    Extra remarks:
    1. Neumann (Klein&Hummel at that time) used to employ ATC dome mids in their larger monitors but ceased due to costs being too high. Supposedly their homegrown 3" dome can give ATC a run for its money. Having heard both, I don't doubt it.
    2. ATC make very decent speakers, but I don't deem them to be a great value. At the same time I will always lust for their SM75-150 mids and maybe will splurge to use it in a DIY build.
    3. Studio subs in general are not that great of a value. SVS is usually a better choice.
     
  11. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  12. Hrodulf

    Hrodulf Prohibited from acting as an MOT until year 2050

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    We have a pair of S2V's here at the office and I have heard the S3V's. One of our clients runs S5H's vertically and he had one of the more flat measurements I've encountered.

    Overall the sound isn't bad by any measure. The built in EQ also helps with wrangling the low end. The mid they use isn't a soft dome. It's more of a dome-shaped polymer that's not too soft. If DAC neurosa is something you have, I'd rather go for Neumann or HEDD (or ATC).
     
  13. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Who tops your value list for actives?
     
  14. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    The KH310 is the one active that’s tempting me away from going with a passive system. How problematic would it be to stand the KH310 vertically, given the tweeter’s oval waveguide and it’s orientation?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  15. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    IMG_20190123_123437.jpg

    Kind of have to agree with psalm.

    I have 19s because they're the least bad easily available passive sealed enclosures that would fit in the (very compromised, sonically) bedroom, where not dealing with what a port would do trumps anything else, because they're sitting on wide tall shelf cut into storage space, boxed in on 5 sides, and I can't have a sub so sealed + room gain > small ported.

    But they're not that great if you don't need a sealed box, and the big ones have awesome mids but the rest is eeehhh.
     
  16. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Do those have the new s-spec tweets? GearSlutz posters seem to think those are the business.
     
  17. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    These are only in the 20 and above. Look for S-spec or dual-suspension in the name.

    I like the s tweeter better, but not enough to use their active's amps over Vidars. YMMV.
     
  18. Azteca

    Azteca Friend

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    Yes. As a bassist, lover of dub and dubstep, etc. I have spent a lot of time researching subs. For my office setup at my full-time classical/opera/jazz/theater recording job, I have a room that is far from ideal but well-treated with 4" GIK panels and triangular bass traps. I bought the Focal Solo 6be and ended up going for the matching Sub6. From all my time pining for subs I knew SVS was tremendous bang-for-the-buck, well-reviewed and -engineered. However, given the size of my room (smallish), distance from speakers (standard midfield mix position), and the function of the setup (reliable monitoring for mixing concert-hall recordings), I knew this was enough for my needs. The fact the two parts integrate so nicely with footswitch is a big plus. Also, as it is a purchase for a state institution where I will have a successor one day, customer service/warranty/reliability from an established pro-audio retailer and manufacturer was important.
    Still, I look at the price of that Sub6 and think "damn, that's easily an SB4000, and almost an SB16 Ultra." But those are complete overkill for my room.
    Some would say I don't need a sub at all. But I also like to listen to a lot of music at work and it's my budget so shrug. Honestly, it has been a huge help in identifying HVAC rumble, when my employees fail to properly hi-pass and other anomalies, and just making sure a double-bass or large drum comes through properly.
     
  19. BenjaminBore

    BenjaminBore Friend

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    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  20. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    The classic is the only 20 with the old tweeter.

    The PSL was an option but I would have had to order it from the uk so that came out to about 1k euro more.
     

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