Audeze lcd-1 hype train getting ready to leave the station?

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by Ice-man, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. Senorx12562

    Senorx12562 Case of the mondays

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    I still don't understand this. My understanding was that Schiit MB dacs perform the oversampling via the hardware itself. But then the only time I play music through Windows drivers is if forced to (hello Amazon HD). And if the effect on sound is as you claim, why would one do so if you have the choice of using the Schiit-provided WASAPI drivers?
     
  2. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    The Modi Multibit oversamples every signal sent to it that's under 192Khz. If Windows already did that, the Modi Multibit is getting a 192Khz sample and doesn't need to OS. And due to how the DAC works, that bypasses the filter as well.

    As far as the second part is concerned, not everything can be used with Schiit-provided drivers. The Schiit-provided drivers just allow the device to be seen by the computer. Direct-Sound is unavoidable if you're on a browser or playing games. Programs like Foobar and Tidal's desktop app have to force a different driver to be used via software.
     
  3. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    You can have WASAPI on Chrome by using --enable-exclusive-audio
     
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  4. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I know Schiit kinda marketed it as "NOS Mode" initially, but, I mean, you could say any DAC has NOS mode if you're able to feed it pre-upsampled/oversampled or high enough resolution content.

    I think that they were 4X OS meant that it was pretty easy to feed them pre-upsampled content, because some software, OSes, and hardware can't upsample easily or at all to 8X. Well, that, and most digital inputs cap out at 192K anyway, so...

    (Plus, later iterations of Bifrost Multibit seem to be on 8X OS.)
     
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  5. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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  6. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    It works, but requires some tweaking:

    To change the exclusive-mode settings of a playback or recording device

    1. Right-click the speaker icon in the notification area, which is located on the right side of the taskbar, and select Playback Devices or Recording Devices. (As an alternative, run the Windows multimedia control panel, Mmsys.cpl, from a Command Prompt window.
    2. After the Sound window appears, select Playback or Recording. Next, select an entry in the list of device names, and click Properties.
    3. After the Properties window appears, click Advanced.
    4. To enable applications to use the device in exclusive mode, check the box labeled Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device. To disable exclusive-mode use of the device, clear the check box.
    5. If exclusive-mode use of the device is enabled, you can specify whether a request for exclusive control of the device will succeed if the device is currently playing or recording shared-mode streams. To give exclusive-mode applications priority over shared-mode applications, check the box labeled Give exclusive mode applications priority. To deny exclusive-mode applications priority over shared-mode applications, clear the check box.
    I'll try it out again when I get home tonight but last time I checked it was working for me.
     
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  7. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I already had all that enabled. Adding the command to Chrome doesn't seem to work at all; it doesn't active exclusive mode.
     
  8. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    Seems to work for me.
     
  9. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I might be doing something wrong then. Can you snip exactly where you put the command to get it to work?

    actually, please PM it. This is the LCD 1 thread, not “help Paco, the 29 y/o boomer, with his chrome issues” and I don’t want to clutter this thread with 9 pages of me not getting shit to work lol.
     
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  10. elmoe

    elmoe Friend

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    I cant right this minute but basically I made a link to chrome on my desktop, right click--> properties then in the address bar: ...chrome.exe" --enable-exclusive-audio
     
  11. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Wait huh? So if I'm feeding a 16/44.1hz track, and I have my converter set at 24/192khz, there is no oversampling being done by the chip?

    In other words, to get the 8X oversampling you need to have your converter set at the bitrate/depth to match the files you are playing back?
     
  12. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    If you're using bit-perfect drivers, you're always going to use the chip unless you're using audio files with that high of sampling rate.

    If you're using windows drivers, windows will upsample it to whatever you set it to. So the device may get sent it's full sampling rate and not have to do it themselves. However, like most digital filters, Windows will what digital artifacts (i.e., ringing.)

    The NOS thing might just be a joke from schiit and it took me 2 years to realize it. A true NOS dac doesn't upsample on the digital (which bypasses the addition of ringing being introduced) or analog portion (which bypasses the addition of FR changes and phase distortions.) It uses the ears as the "filter." This might be why NOS dacs sound consistently softer on transients and are way less fatiguing.
     
  13. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I use direct transfer protocols like ASIO and WASAPI. Let's say I have my DAC set to 24/192khz in Windows settings and I have that option on my DAC to select that rate. If I'm sending 16/44.1khz music, there is no upsampling involved? Or if there is, it's not going to take advantage of the oversampling in the DAC chip?

    In foobar2000, I can't play any of my 16/44.1khz FLAC files unless I use a sampler within the program because I have my DACs configured at 24/192khz.
     
  14. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm not an expert at this, as it isn't my field of engineering. That said...

    I don't think it is. If you're using a sampler, then foober is doing the oversampling. I don't know if it is acting as the filter, as a lot of DACs will just filter it down to the audible ranges through a digital filter or an analog one. There's a chance it has to be set exactly to what you want it to accept because it filters it from there.
     
  15. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Normally, ASIO and WASAPI should be bit-perfect, i.e. no upsampling or the like.

    But it's still a good idea to set Windows to the exact bit and sampling rate of your music, and to enable exclusive mode. And just disable any other sound effects or DSP it might give you in options.

    Is there an auto option on the DAC? If not, I think you'd want to set it to be native to the music. Not 100% sure on your DAC, and haven't looked at the manual.

    If you're using samplers of any kind in your playback software, it probably isn't bit-perfect, in the sense that it would be upsampling before the DAC. Sometimes, this is a good thing, if you have an upsampler in software you prefer the sound of vs what's in the DAC itself. HQPlayer is popular for this reason, since it gives you a lot of upsampling options.

    I think you can send software-upsampled content over ASIO? Maybe? I don't remember.

    BTW, I might recommend JRiver Media Center if you want a good music playback software. I know, it's not freeware, but still a good piece of software. Loads of good audio options too, and probably easier to understand than Foobar.

    Roon is also good for playback, and easier to enable bit-perfect playback. It has DSP options too, like upsampling, if you want it. But it's pricey as fuck, no doubt.

    I'd spend some time researching how to do bit perfect playback, in combination with reviewing your DAC's manual, to make sure you get it all squared away. :)
     
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  16. dubharmonic

    dubharmonic Friend

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    • Packaging, travel case and cable are nicely done.
    • Very light and easy to wear, but they don’t feel very sturdy.
    • The lambskin pads feel amazingly smooth and soft.
    • Tuning reminds me of the iSine series, which isn’t a bad thing. More presence than the LCD-GX, though not HIFIMan tizz. A bit sterile.
    • These really have a 90 mm driver? Bass doesn’t have as much weight as expected.
    • Soundstage is nearly nonexistent.
    • The plasticky timbre doesn’t pose any threat to the HD600 family.
    • Much more portable than the HD600 family.
    • Overall not bad! Not an industry disruptor, but I think Audeze hit the mark they were aiming for.
     
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  17. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    For those of you interested, oratory1990 has already published measured frequency response of LCD1s. Comparing it with HD650 and Edition X V1 (both quite neutral-sounding headphones) might give you some clues about what to expect from the Audeze. It was certainly enough to personally loose interest in the headphone.

    NOTE: Look at the "SPL Frequency Response without EQ" graph. I recommend raw curve for up to about 1kHz and compensated curve for the rest of the spectrum.
     
  18. PacoTaco

    PacoTaco Friend

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    I've sent off the LCD-1 to @Hands , so I guess I owe you all a review now.

    If you want a TL;DR : Don't bother. It's an open Mobius with less flexibility and the same price tag.

    It's built light to be portable, but feels too cheap. It feels less sturdy than my Mobius, and that thing has it's cups broken. Worst part: The Mobius already had small pads, but it fit better on my head and ears than the LCD-1.

    Anyway, it doesn't share much in common with other LCD headphones. It has a smaller soundstage, alright imagery, and a lack of dynamics. It's bizarre. The entire headphones tone is a contradiction: It's an ortho without deep or linear bass (it just kinda falls off into the abyss, but with none of the mid-bass on the HD650, for instance.) It's mid-centric, but lacks clarity. It's suppose to be neutral, but it lacks actual air. You know what? Screw it. Save yourself $270 and a HE4XX. Hell, if you had to buy two more to replace the first one because it came down with a case of Chinese durability, it would still be a better investment of your money.

    Here's some better buys for $400 and below:

    HD6XX
    HD58X
    Beyerdynamic DT177X
    E-MU Teak
    That Koss electro-stat
    HE-4XX with some ZMF pads of some sort
    ZMF Classics
    Hifiman Sundara
    Hifiman HE-5SE

    I probably missed some.

    I don't have much else to say other than "I didn't like it all that much and it's probably called neutral because it's missing bass and air."


    OH! I forgot a PSA:

    Don't use anything other than the stock cables. Neither the HE4XX's cable, the aftermarket cable I got on Amazon, or the Sundara's included cable work with the headphone. It just outputs the left channel. Probably has something to do with having not to worry with accidentally flipping the inputs when you attach the cables, but that just means it is a worse kind of proprietary cable.
     
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  19. mkozlows

    mkozlows Friend

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    The LCD-1 has TRRS plugs, apparently.
     
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  20. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Almost "Made"

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    That 3k spike looks rough! I am already sensitive to the 3-4k region personally and that looks like murder. Lot of energy at 4k too, I typically find the Harmon target to be way too strong in the 3k-4k region already and these are exceeding that by a good margin.

    The bass extension is really bad for a planar as well which is disappointing. I assume you can EQ it up without a issue, but I always dislike seeing planars with poor extension as I think that is one of the biggest advantages over dynamic drivers.

    Hate to be the guy who just looks at a graph and say yeah no thanks but man that is rough.
     
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