Audeze Sine - Quick Impressions and Stream of Consciousness

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by purr1n, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. Zed Bopp

    Zed Bopp Friend

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    Here's an update after a few months of use.

    I think Sines really need some sort of amping, volume levels straight from a phone are not quite there. They have a pretty neutral FR and strong mids with very clear transients. It brings to mind many good studio-models in this regard (FSP especially, but cleaner sound throughout). They are pretty much the opposite of the warm, colored and super-pleasant signatures of many recent portable sets like Momentums or Sony MDR-1As. Bad recordings actually sound bad, which isn't as common as many online reviews would suggest. These are the only portable phones that really compete sound-wise with my full-sized open cans, that's why I often use them at home too, tethered to an iDevice.

    The comfort is my biggest problem with them, though. They should have thicker pads akin similar size Momentum V1 and V-Moda XL pads. The isolation isn't very good either, but I can live with that. They are much heavier than the dynamic competition by the way - if the headband adjustment is too loose, they'll move around. The Cipher cable's amping, remote controls, EQ-app and overall hassle-free portability make me very happy when on-the-go. About 50% of volume is plenty with it. I pretty much never use Sines without it.
     
  2. Koth Ganesh

    Koth Ganesh Friend

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    Does anybody when Audez'e is going to sell the Cipher cable separately for the Sine?
     
  3. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I have a bad feeling about that one. I know many tinkerers here would love to hack that cable to use for other non-Audeze headphones.
     
  4. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    Well, the Sine is off to the next pirate, so a few final thoughts.

    Amplification, amplification, amplification...

    This Sine needs some, which should come as no surprise considering its a planar. Using my Hifi-M8, I still needed 75% volume (lower gain) for the sound to open up somewhat. But amplification doesn't make everything go away. I was expecting a little more sparkle in treble then I was getting (to be fair, the M8 is a bit dark, so it might share a little blame). But that wasn't lacking to the point of being off putting, just a slight weakness. My larger gripe was the lack of sub bass, which really surprised me. Planar magnetic headphones are for bass lovers, right? Of course I'm over generalizing, but still I was expecting something I wasn't receiving. I was hoping for more slam, and was let down over and over. Percussion instruments, electronic percussion, and lower range instruments like baritone sax and tuba just weren't having the impact at all. Now to be fair, the mid bass is strong, maybe too strong. And that could have made my brain ignore the sub-bass. If you like a smooth presentation, the Sine will give you that for sure.

    Now its possible that the Cypher cable could help, along with the free app. One could maybe roll back the mid bass and enhance the sub bass and maybe hit it with a slight treble spike...

    But the Sine just couldn't compete with my DT1350 in overall presentation. Now if only my DT1350 could be as comfortable, have the build quality, and provide the seal on the ears, as the Sine does. But of course, the Sine is more then twice the price...


    edit - two quick more thoughts.

    Could the Cypher cable be a headphone hacker's dream? All I thought about was if it could be spliced into other headphones like my DT1350, and a multitude of other portable headphones that can benefit from touch of amplification and a touch of EQ..

    Also, wouldn't it be cool if Audeze made a USB-C version of the Cypher? It seems the next logical accessory. As many Android phones, and a variety of laptops are going in that direction (I'm looking at you Macbook!!!)
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  5. Zed Bopp

    Zed Bopp Friend

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    That's exactly what I do with the provided EQ-app: drop 3b from 125hz and boost 1-2 db at 32 and 64. Clears the lows very nicely.

    Boosting 8khz just 1db does wonders to the sparkles. I'd say this lack of sparkle is quite common with smaller cupped closed models.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2016
  6. Mrip

    Mrip Friend

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    Was anyone able to use these as over ears? My ears are pretty small and the cup opening looks pretty big.
     
  7. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I wouldn't count on that happening. These are smack dab in on-ear sizing...
     
  8. Negura

    Negura Friend

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    A few weeks ago in my journey for new portable stuff & mid-fi revisitted, I bought a pair of these (old school cable version). They were returned in less than a week for refund. They are not bad, I just found them boring and unengaging even for mid-fi. Unless of course one is really into the Audeze sound reduced to lower-fi level. What made them underwhelming was likely the combination of very meh resolution, Audeze smooth sound and no treble presence.

    For a better/clearer/more resolving mid-fi closed headphone, I would just buy either the Focal Spirit Pro or AKG K550 MK2, which is what I did. Both are higher imo on the SQ scale AND leave money (give or take) for a Chord Mojo too. Not even the mighty EC Studio could save the Sine. On this note the Focal Spirit Pro scale tremendously with good amping.

    To put things into perspective, with regards to my personal preferences, my primary desktop headphones are the modded HE-6s, and modded HD800 on and off. I enjoy, but would not consider to own Audeze LCD-4 or LCD-3F.

    Considering the pricing of those 2 other closed headphones I mentioned, the Sine should cost no more than 100$ (+ some leeway for the build quality). My 2c.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  9. Zed Bopp

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    After 3 months, I think I've finally got what these headphones are about - here's the video-review:

     
  10. philipmorgan

    philipmorgan Member of the month

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    Thanks to the loaner program, I got a chance to listen to the Audeze SINE.

    Caveats:

    * No Cipher cable
    * 63% chance that ear-pad compatability was not ideal. I have ears on the larger, more stickeyoutey side of things. I mean, what part of human anatomy is *less* standardized than ear auricle, right? (On second thought, DON’T ANSWER THAT OUTSIDE THE PRIVACY OF YOUR OWN MIND!!) Anyway, your mileage may vary wildly based on ear auricle shape. You might get some better seal that tilts the tonal balance in the right direction.
    * I mostly listened through my Pi streamer+Gungnir Multibit+Jot combo, with a few tracks played from my iPhone 6+ for comparison.
    * I want 'em *real thick and juicy*. I'm talking about the low end of headphones, of course.

    Impressions:

    It’s a bad sign if you listen to some headphones and then start checking to make sure the cable is plugged in all the way or you’re searching the internet to make sure you’ve put the headphones on your head the right way.

    On almost every track, the SINE was too lean overall and scratchy/honky in the mids. In addition, it had this strange "compression", like it reduced the dynamic range of everything I fed into it.

    I tried some things to rectify this. Pushing the cups tighter against my ears to see if it was a seal issue. That didn't really help. I switched to Jriver as a source so I could dial in +4dB of bass shelf via Equilibrium and that helped the tonal balance a lot, but there was still this sense of greatly compressed dynamics.

    Imaging was decent, build quality seemed really great, and comfort was surprisingly high for on-ear cans.

    * Neil Young, On the Beach: Thin/lean and scratchy sounding. Electric guitar kind of painful when the song is turned up loud enough to be enjoyable. Impact from snare and tom hits in “On the Beach” not what it can and should be. Cymbals seem soft and laid back.
    * Back in Black: Hilariously weak and thin sounding. Loud and flat all at the same time.
    * Smog, Let Me See the Colts: Is Bill sining through a telephone?
    * Cake, I Will Survive: Maybe I will survive listening to these headphones. There's hope... This track sounds better until the lead guitar kicks in and I realize I've turned up the amp to compensate for the SINE's flatness and now the lead guitar is painful.
    * Destroyer, Archer on the Beach: Sounds OK with EQ, but vocals get scratchy and sort of piercing at certain points. Lead guitar does this as well.


    I switched to my Mjo2. That didn't wake the SINE up any more than the Jot did, so it's not a power issue.

    Overall I found some tracks where the SINE sounds sorta acceptable, but it never sounded great and always felt like it was luck more than anything when it did sound good.


    Comparisons:

    * SINE vs HD650m (modded HD-650s): The (properly amped) 650m is a f'ing VELVET HAMMER RESOLUTION MONSTER by comparision to the SINE. How do the SINE’s manage to be boring and offensive at the same time?
    * SINE vs. PM3: I only listened to this pair out of my phone, and the PM3s roflstomed the SINE in every way, including comfort.


    I realize that everything I disliked about the SINE *could* be an asset for some people. The dynamic compression, for example, could work well in high background noise situations, and the distorted midrange+lean tonal balance could synergize well with some kinds of music or music preferences.

    But damn, if you have to add the Cipher cable for the SINE to sound even half-decent, then the SINE has some very formidable competition that almost certainly bests it in almost every category. The PM3 is probably the least of these.
     
  11. aufmerksam

    aufmerksam Friend

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    A little late to add my impressions after my time with the tour unit, but here they are all the same:

    COMFORT: These are the most comfortable on-ear's I may have ever tried. This is such a random value, and I can say nothing about anyone else's ears, especially since I typically hate on-ear's either for shitty seal or because of mashing my auricla against my skull during prolonged use. The Sine was a non-offender on both counts! Furthermore, the seal was like a vacuum. These were tupperware lids for my ears, which I think colored the rest of my impressions, especially wrt bass and staging.

    A note about how I review headphones:
    1. Listen to them without any critical attention in the scenario I am most likely to use them and see if they catch my attention in any meaningful way. Here that was straight out of my phone (Nexus 6p). I also pay attention to comfort at this point. I try to pick an album I have been listening to lately and have some idea what it sounds like;
    2. Listen to them with different amps and see if my general impressions about attention catching or fun-ness changes significantly;
    3. Listen to them with a critical ear on an album I know what it sounds like out of my reference transducer. For closed cans, my reference transducer is the DT150.* My most recent reference album for closed cans is Arcade Fire, Reflektor. I am very familiar with the album, have heard several of the songs live, and it lets me pick apart the most offending part of closed cans for me: shitty bass, offensive highs;
    4. Listen to the known standard and then compare. (Sometimes I will do 4 before 3 if I am already not enjoying the new headphone).
    5. Other relevant tracks: I always make new headphones put up with several tracks (too much, age of adz, i want to be well...) from Sufjan Stevens, Age of Adz because there is way too much shit going on in that album, and poor transducers simply cannot keep up. I also have several "feels" tracks that I will not disclose, because I am a delicate, sensitive flower.**
    And with that...
    My first listen was out of my phone. I was pleasantly surprised at general sound quality unamped from phone. It was not total shit, and the bass felt meaty in a good way. There was adequate impressive separation of voices for a closed headphone, but everything sounded a bit small. It couldn't quite keep up with the noise (I blame the phone). No feels.

    Then I plugged them into leckerton > GO450 > phone. Better sound, voices less small, still separated, but something not right. The separation of voices felt artificial. It could better keep up with the noise. If anything, the bass got less awesome, and felt more ... techno? (my note says "bass = techno?" which I cannot clarify other than I meant the texture seemed digitized, not that it sounded like a rave in my ear). Still no feels.

    Then I plugged them into the jotun, and it was pretty much the same as out of GO450 and leck. Transducer kept up about the same as with leckerton, probably better, but at this point the overall sound was not great. Stage and separation felt more artificial. Somehow even less feels (yes, less than zero because I was befuddled at what I was hearing). At this point I was confused and disappointed.

    I spent the rest of my time listening to them directly out of my phone, with no critical attention. In this capacity, I think they were "pretty good". However, they are wayyyyyyyyyyy too expensive for "pretty good".

    I guess the good news is they fit me well and don't really scale? I didn't think they bled bass too badly for closed cans (it didn't strike me anyway) or that the bass overtook the mids, which I attribute to them fitting my ears so well. I was never really offended by the honk others have mentioned. But, I didn't really enjoy these unless I was not caring about the detail of their sound, which is a great segue to... The bad news is they didn't really impress beyond the first listen and sounded more unnatural the harder I tried to let them shine. This is especially disappointing because I think they are pretty good technically.

    I think Audeze did a good job targeting these to the portable listener. They seem properly tuned for that and pretty capable in that use case. If these were $150 I would consider buying them for use on an airplane or bus. I would be very curious to hear how the cypher cable changes things, but not so curious as to buy them and switch back to an iphone.



    *Shut up, I have had them the longest, know what they sound like, and like what they sound like. They ain't the greatest closed cans, but they are the most open sounding truly closed can I have listened to (and can afford). They produce almost no bass smear and the bass does not bleed into the mids at all. I find their tonal presentation to be excellent.
    **I still remember the moment I got concert level feels from a headphone, and how certain headphones could produce this in me simply, while others could not. This is HIGHLY subjective, and not at all a fair point of comparison, but this is why I listen to music, so again, shut up.
     
  12. Zed Bopp

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    I guess there are some cheapos "better" than these (?) - but I still find the Sines the best portables out today. There's good punch in the lows and some very present mids... Comparing them to HD650 (mod'd even?) is not fair. It's a different ballgame. Portables are a thing of their own.

    HD-25 are probably the choice for some, but they aren't nearly as clean in the end. And they just look butt-ugly when you wear them. *Eww*, with a mid-bass boost.

    PM-3? - I haven't heard 'em.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  13. Zed Bopp

    Zed Bopp Friend

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    I think the original pads are the biggest problem with these, here’s my thoughts about a nice alternative. (Copied from this other forum.)

    So, here's my take after a week with the Creative Aurvana Live! pads - usurped from my own pair.

    They're a real winner for portable, a no-brainer - my Sines went from no use to all the use. They're semi over-ear with much softer pads that let the pair sit stably on my head, really great when on a walk. Now they're actually a comfortable portable hp. The stock pads had annoyingly volumes going up and down too depending on the seal and proximity to the ears when moving. That's totally gone.

    The CALs are a bit loose fitting on here, but I'm quite ok with that. Sound-wise CAL pads are very close to stock and sound at least as good to my ears. There's maybe a slight boost in the lows, but I'm not sure. Maybe it's just a better seal than before when in traffic.
    Really don't know what Audeze was thinking putting such pads on this good a headphone. The looks, I guess.

    Anyhoo, this is easily the best sounding portable (non-IEM) headphone I've heard that finally actually works like it should when on-the-go. The closest competitor Oppo PM3 just sounds way too dull & dark in comparison, even if it has the comfort down stock.

    I wish there's still a market for this kind of portable SQ and therefore research being made to make these over-ear and maybe even wireless one day. Here’s hoping!
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  14. Tsiklon

    Tsiklon New

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    I auditioned the Sine when I was comparing them with PM-3. I really found them to be good fun, though the additional comfort of the PM-3 won me over.

    I do wonder why Audeze went for a 'pseudo on-ear' design here with these, is there more market in on-ears than over-ear sets at this price?

    I say 'pseudo on-ear' as my ears surprisingly fit them, so for me they're a very tight over-ear. I'd imagine that a light, high quality portable over-ear set absent of the tech and accoutrements of the Mobius would go over well - at least among this crowd. (The EL-8 doesn't really counts as portable, regardless of what Audeze say.)

    Is the Sine discontinued now? If so there's potentially a gap in the market now that the PM-3 is also discontinued with the death of Oppo.
     
  15. Zed Bopp

    Zed Bopp Friend

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    Yeah, there is a top SQ portable missing from the market right now. I guess ANC and bluetooth are most important to the consumer market right now, but I’d think there’s still need for totl portable wired sets.

    But what the hell Audeze, just go ahead and make a wireless Sine 2 with larger cup dimensions (like qc35 etc.) and get some plush pads in there. That EQ app and Cipher cables DSP tuning work great, stick with those.
     
  16. pelagius

    pelagius New

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    For what it's worth, I got an adapter to use over-ear pads and a pair of Dekoni ATH-M50 pads. It resolves most of the issues I found in my post in the measurements and impressions thread. With these pads, the comfort is much better and the seal weirdness is gone. There's also a bit more isolation.

    I don't think Audeze sells them but you can find them online elsewhere. The part is CBL-LT-1105.
     

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