Audio-GD R2R 11

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by dropadred, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    That title only means you have been accepted into the fold despite your divergent beliefs. This place busts your balls (or ovaries) a little. You'd be banned if you were really the odd-kid on the playground that everyone picked on.

    A few notes:
    • You mentioned Asgard and Lyr. Asgard 1 and Lyr 1 sucked. I know Jason and Mike hate it when I say that since those were their first products in 2010 or back whenever. Maybe the better way of putting it is that they did not meet my expectations given their hype on HF. However, those products were affordable and were what got a lot of people started. The rest is history. I really didn't care for Schiit until they introduced the Vali 1 years later.
    • Everyone has different preferences. From your ramblings, I'd venture to say that you prefer a lusher more organic sound. I'd take a look into Metrum (good but overpriced - get used for sure). I'd also take a serious look at used Sonic Frontiers SFD-1 or 2. You will see them used every now and then. They are old DACs, but still serviced by PCX. Heck, I think you might like the Massdrop Airist R2R or Modi Multibit too. The Soekris DACs are neutral. The SDAC is a great value, but neutral sounding. The neutral-sounding DACs seem to be leaner sounding for you.
    • You need more experience and understanding of your preferences. You cannot say you prefer A-GD to Schiit when your references are to the first amps Schiit ever made eight years ago. That's like someone saying they prefer Auralic to A-GD using old A-GD designs as the reference. Actually, scratch that, A-GD has pretty much remained the same with their TOTL stuff being interesting and filling a niche (albeit slightly overpriced now in 2018), and their mid-line / low-line stuff being a roll-of-the-dice with most of it being craptastic. Remember, a few people here have pretty much heard almost everything.
    • While I have mixed feelings about A-GD, I wouldn't trust Amir's measurements 100%. He's borked measurements before and he plays favorites, e.g. Topping (where I suspect he might have some financial interests). He leaves out important details and only shows you what he wants to show you based on his biases where he claims to have none which is impossible for human beings. His methodology is to look for measurements issues (ones that human beings cannot hear, but measurements can register) rather than encompass an overall wholistic view of the product.
    • You might actually like the sound of massive amounts of third (and second) order distortion. We are talking audible levels, not Amir-levels. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. From an objective point of view, it sucks. Subjectively, anything goes.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  2. jexby

    jexby Posole Prince

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    wanting to be fair also, "only" disliked this because your communication style mimics a mental turd dump.
    humans could not care less for the size of your house or that you don't have use of your "main rig". which frankly is unsurprising.

    your SNR is higher than a geiger counter at Fukushima.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  4. JK47

    JK47 Guest

    Being in the company of good people makes all the difference. I try to avoid spending time in the vicinity of douche bags IRL (too easy to reach out and touch them when I'm provoked... teeheeeeeeee). I still don't have the time or patience, and defense lawyers are expensive (speaking from personal experience).
     
  5. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    About the same or worse IRL. :)
     
  6. Elnrik

    Elnrik Super Friendly

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    The filters come off IRL...
     
  7. Darlig1218

    Darlig1218 New

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    I am an Audio GD R2R-11 owner. I am seeking for some suggestions, so please bear with me. I do not use it with headphones, so I cannot comment on that. I bought it as D/AC, period. When I bought it I liked it so much I sold the Chord Mojo I had because I figured the R2R was a better solution for my needs and better sounding too. I used the funds someplace else. I have never had a higher tier DAC, and well… that’s the best I had to compare against. Sure though, I tried Fiio E10, Schiit Uber/Bifrost, DragonFly, Cambridge DAC magic… and the Audio GD was just the one who murder them all. Now, how did I Chose? Since I can run NO electrical measurements, the only choice was to go subjective here. I really like the sound of my TT rig, which is also modest. A Pro-ject RPM 3 with Nagaoka 150 (at the time at least. Now I have the 110 Stylus because I ruined the other playing records while chugging too much beer – I like the results) and a Mani Phono Stage.

    I always thought the sound of the letters S, P, B, T was much sweeter on the record player. Also, the decay and nuances of the cymbals and membranes was much more natural on the records, not to mention the sound of wood against wood, or flutes. I liked many things if the Vinyl sound, that’s what I mean. I then lusted for that presentation on Digital, as digital sounded more detailed sometimes… but colder, thinner, and less tonally convincing. The metal did not sound as metal, although I could hear more things. My senses were impressed, but not fooled… so there was not that thrill that made me shiver and gave me goosebumps. I was then comparing the DAC against the Vinyl, playing the same song back to back, digital vs analog. What happened is that the DAC that sounds the closest to the Vinyl is the Audio GD. The timbre, decay, detail was just quite alike, and VERY Holographic compared to ANY other of the ones I tested.

    However, cows had run drier, I cannot keep flushing money the same way into Audio. I am saving to update and send the R2R-11 into the bedroom. But then I read all this about Audio GD and I was planning to Update to R2R-1, now I am hesitant regardless the joy I got from it.

    I checked the reports from Audio Science review on the Bifrost Multibit and is not uplifting. The Audio GD R2R is even worse! I cannot fork any greater funds than $1000 US, and that’s TOPS. I would be looking for a very natural sound, not thin, and not uber detailed… when it feels like I have superpowers I just don’t buy it. I sold Kef LS50’s because their sound signature… it was this crisp unbelievable-detailed top end that I could not digest. It was not piercing or anything, but I do not enjoy feeling like I am superman and I can hear into the recording with bat ears. I like the music that sounds with body, like when you are in a jamming session. I still hear up to 16000 Hz, so that might be the case with certain hyper detailed with too much bite on the leading end, I do not know.

    Anyhow… Now I am hesitant to Buy Audio GD R2R-1 and I am not sure what could be next then?

    BTW – I have had a pair of Klipsch Heresy III into the gear with the R2R-11 as DAC. If a speaker can sound bright, this would be one of them. It sounds smooth and soothing. Great sound from the Heresy’s – So, it could even be that the manufacturing is so inconsistent that other here claim their R2R-11 is bright and glaring? Because mine is laidback!
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    1. Don't get hung up on measurements for DACs. Read this to understand why: https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ically-incorrect-audio-blog.7261/#post-249242
    2. Your TT setup is going to measure worse than DACs that measure relatively worse the others. 99% of DACs, even the ones near the bottom in terms of SINAD, measure better than human ears can detect.
    3. Using Nagaoka and RPM TT as the reference and assuming you like this sound, consider the following:
      1. Schiit Modi Multibit
      2. Drop RDAC
      3. EC Designs MOS16 (will need USB to toslink)
      4. Metrum Amethyst
      5. Sonic Frontiers SFD1 (ancient, pop up used, but still serviced by Parts Connexion), will need USB to coax)
     
  9. Darlig1218

    Darlig1218 New

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    Thanks, didn't know 4 of the 5 you recommended. I'll look into those.

    Also wonder, if anyone is able to comment on the RME Adi-2 against any of these. Close to the $1000.

    Given the turntable always measure worse, well... It all would come down at the one that has the most natural timbre and most depth on presentation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  10. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Avoid RME and anything sigma-delta if you want something resembling TT sound.
     
  11. Darlig1218

    Darlig1218 New

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  12. Darlig1218

    Darlig1218 New

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    Thanks a lot for the suggestions Purr1n. In the end, it turns out you gave such a great commendation to the new Bifrost iteration that it really caught my attention. I was still indecisive about what DAC to get (because I was looking to get 2 sets of outputs) and it was the fact that you were ok with it being the replacement for a defunct Theta CD transport (hope it doesn't happen soon!), which I understand you cherish for the great natural sound it has, what definitely did it for me. That being said, I was ordering the Sol last Wednesday once it came out (I need a more appropriate arm for the Nagaoka, Pro-jects are too low mass and seems like the SOL is a beautiful match and an outperformer all the way around. I believe is well worth the upgrade with the lower price tag!) and said -what the hell-, and went with the newer Bifrost too. It should be home anytime this week. I will post back any impressions after some weeks of burn-in, just for the sake of it.

    Pretty excited about it all. I believe that set up should last me some decades coming up. I do not see myself upgrading much more. The crappy R2R-11 and the poorly matched arm with my Nag already makes my heart melt...
     
  13. Dzerh

    Dzerh Friend

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    hmm, I thought @purr1n was talking about Unison as USB transport vs Theta as SPDIF, not Bifrost 2 as DAC vs Theta.
     
  14. Darlig1218

    Darlig1218 New

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    So I fucked it up? Ha! great...
     
  15. oh_okay

    oh_okay New

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    Playin' catch-up on readin' up on this DAC, and have only skimmed this thread (and the one at H-F and ASF)....
    Okay.........the LIST price ($350 USD) is the same as Massdrop Airist R2R. The two units look quite different, and I assume the major diff. is the HPA on the Audio-GD.
    What should an R2R dac shopper know about these two (given the re-availability of the Mass RDAC again)?
     
  16. je2a3

    je2a3 Almost "Made"

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    I never heard the Drop Airist DAC but it looks like it uses an SMPS (switch mode power supply/wall wart). I have the AGD R2R 11 and it has a power transformer inside. Based on construction and materials alone, my money is buying more hardware in the Audio GD. The R2R 11 may not be the last word in detail resolution but I like its tube-like character.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Since you asked here on specifically on SBAF: in general, avoid AG-D. Many members have owned AG-D stuff and moved on. A few of their TOTL and specific models were good. Every year or so, somebody tells us that AG-D made something good. We buy it and then we can't sell it after we are done.

    Also the discrete resistor ladder stuff from AGD is or was super-janky. We don't know if they've gotten better. It's possible, but someone will have to send us one. For reference:
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...ac-comprehensive-review-and-impressions.4134/
    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...d-singularity-19-dac-measurements.4135/page-4
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  18. oh_okay

    oh_okay New

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    If shipping delays from China were not so pathetically long, I'd prob. order the R2R11. Too bad they don't have a dedicated US distrib. (they have several in EU and Russia region).
    I've been keeping my eyes open on Ali and eBay for the usual copycats el-cheapos (lotta potential for DIY there). But no luck .... methinks all those resistors (waveguide soldering) are just not (yet) profitable for CHEAP mass prod.
     
  19. JeremiahS

    JeremiahS Almost "Made"

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  20. dasman66

    dasman66 Self proclaimed lazy ass - friend

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    to answer the question... I don't

    but out of curiosity, how do measurements of their DDC mean they have learnt a lesson or two regarding the sound of their dacs?
    --------edited for clarity--------
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2022

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