Audio-gd R2R 7 DAC

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by GanGreinke, Jun 30, 2017.

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  1. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    What @Hands said. I feel the same way.
     
  2. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I'm with @Hands and @atomicbob ...

    To audition another Audio-GD DAC* it'd have to be made effortless, completely free, come pre-burned in, and have at least two sets of non-awful feedback from someone who's judgement/ears I trust, and a competent set of measurements from an unbiased source (i.e. not the manufacturer and not someone selling measuring gear).

    Reading all the stuff their site now says is necessary for a discrete R2R DAC to perform, which it doesn't quite seem to say is actually done on the DA-7 boards, it basically shits all over their DA-M1 modules. Fitting, really, since that's what they did to my ears.

    Topologically the DA-7 looks a bit too much like the ROCKNA boards for my liking.

    This is a longwinded way of saying that my level of interest in this thing is somewhere between zero and none.

    --

    *No interest at all in their amps - I've heard a few and, while competent, all of them left me cold.
     
  3. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'll throw these out (NFB-1 and NFM-11 amps) as loaner candidate possibilities.

    No go on the DACs, after getting severely burnt on the S19. Besides, their DACs I feel are weak, or at best, poor value. Their preamps in my experience have been insufficiently transparent or colored (in a bad way). The amps seem to be their strong suit.
     
  4. zeissiez

    zeissiez Turn that Schiit down - acquaintance

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    No hurry to dismiss the R2R 7, no one here has heard one yet. The S19 could well be a lemon. There's no need to go over and over of that poor thing There are ppl who actually comparing it to the Yggdrasil right now and let's be open hearted and see what they have to says. if it's better than the Yggdrasil, it's good news isn't it? We have moved on
     
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I think the point is that, so far, none of the regulars in this thread with an interest in doing serious DAC evaluations wants to hear it. And that's based on our various prior experiences with Audio-GD DACs (some competent, one quite good, none that I'd call exceptional or particularly good value) - not just the S19. As things stand, I can't see there being enough interest/faith to warrant buying one for a loaner tour.

    Assuming the high-end of the curve for industry-typical failure rates on solid-state electronics, it's 30 times more likely to be just fine than it is actually faulty in some way.

    Feedback from someone I know that also bought an S19 (poor sod) pretty much follows the opinions here. I'll hear for sure when he loans it to me. He's doing the "burn it in for hundreds of hours" thing right now. If it turns things around then I'll make note of that and more investigation may be warranted. If it's the same story again, well, I'll make note of that as well. Don't hold your breath there, though, as he's not happy with it right now.

    If they're people that have a reasonable track record of evaluating gear, and have some common, corroborating, points of reference, then that might be interesting. If it's the usual Head-Fi ra-ra types that frequent the Audio-GD threads, it'll carry a lot less weight.

    Perhaps.

    But since it's also more expensive, it'll need to be better otherwise it's a bit pointless.
     
  6. Jerry

    Jerry Friend

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    Somehow I find it kinda absurd that an Audio-GD DAC is more expensive than the Yggdrasil. Unless it is really that much better than the Yggdrasil, why bother?
     
  7. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    This is odd reasoning. You don't assume in the absence of evidence to the contrary that everyone is capable of making first-rate DACs. Hell, by that logic, I might be shitting out Yggdrasil beaters in secret too. AGD have made a series of DACs ranging from mediocre to dreadful- the outliers that are actually good are vanishingly rare. You'd need a compelling reason to expect any different from them.

    On the basis that "even a stopped clock gives the right time twice a day", maybe you're fervently hoping for another outlier. Other people are tired of this crap, and are not prepared to go out of their way, or waste their own money on AGD any more without a very good reason.

    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and the onus is on those making the claim, not the rest of the world.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017
  8. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. zeissiez

    zeissiez Turn that Schiit down - acquaintance

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    Chill folks, no one said which DAC is better, no one heard one yet. Why the fear? The last thing SBAF want to be is looking like being obviously "sponsored"... so..... shhhhhhh
     
  10. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    There's no "fear" here. Just expectations based on the track records of the company in question. Which has resulted in some nice headphone amplifiers, one notable DAC, a couple of decent ones, at least one absolute stinker, and a lot of noise accompanied by FOMO-type marketing. Coupled with the weariness resulting from frequent cheer-leading for products from a couple of manufacturer's (of which Audio-GD is one) that, as you say, haven't been heard yet, means that based on their track record there's much more reason to doubt than there is to expect greatness.

    As for sponsorship ... SBAF is sponsored by it's members.

    Do you see big manufacturer banners all over the place, taking up more than half the page? No, you don't. If I browse natively I see just two "adverts". One is the Amazon affiliate link, the other, in this case, is for non-audio related tools.

    --

    At 10% more than Yggdrasil, the Audio-GD DAC in question will need to be better and/or at least preferable to make any sense at all. Especially for the US market. Audio-GD just don't have the reputation, brand-desirability or presence to be turning out products that don't perform at a level commensurate with their price. They just don't have the cachet that Metrum, Bricasti, Chord, Ayre, TotalDAC or PS Audio have.

    --

    If I wind up getting to audition it (which is going to require someone buying one and sending it to me), and it winds up being a stellar performer and/or a relative-bargain that punches above it's price-point then you can be sure I'll make that enthusiastically clear. As will others here. If it winds up getting its proverbial ass handed to it by much cheaper hardware, well, that's going to be made clear too.
     
  11. zeissiez

    zeissiez Turn that Schiit down - acquaintance

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    Exactly, we don't where SBAF is heading now, opinions are heavy biased to a particular brand. Cheap and lazy trolls will certainly suggest fanboyism or sponsorship. We need real tests not cheap talk, let the truth bury the R2R 7 if it's no good.
     
  12. Kattefjaes

    Kattefjaes Mostly Harmless

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    I shan't be holding my breath, if it costs more than a Yggdrasil. There aren't many that clearly punch above that weight category, at any price. To be a relative bargain above Yggdrasil price, it's going to have to do something exceptional.

    The funny thing is that most people would love to be wrong more than anything- that's the thing that the vacuous HF-style cheerleaders just don't get. It's just that many people here have the experience and clue not to get hysterical without very good reason by this point. Pavlovian response to the hype cycle remains a losing proposition.
     
  13. insidious meme

    insidious meme Ambivalent Kumquat

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    Pfft. All you're doing is providing meme fodder for those who think that you are at best overstating the obvious or at worst trying to circumvent what bad review or not that may come down the pike here. Sure agd has a mostly bad track record here review wise but I wouldn't mind if they actually turn that trend around.
     
  14. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    I'll take a zero off that price, keep my Modi MB and laugh all the way to the bank. :punk:
     
  15. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Why are people always talking about Yggdrasil? The SBAF DAC de jour is the Metrum Pavane. I guess people didn't get the memo.
     
  16. Ice-man

    Ice-man Friend

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    Maybe cause it's 2x the price of an Yggdrasil which also can't afford.
     
  17. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    If someone wants to take a stab at discrete R-2R there are well proven providers, that have not yet been covered by wider audience in SBAF.
    There are TotalDacs, Metrums, Soekris' (from engineers who know dacs) to try out before going in blindly to hope a guy who has never done anything like it to get it right the first time, and not for that little money.
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Dammit you Schiit shills. You know, it's not right to like bargains. What's wrong with you people? You should be biased against bargains instead of for bargains.
     
  19. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    Bargains make me uneasy. It's like, what are they hiding with such a low price? Who are they not in bed with? Will I be perceived as poor and/or less cool?
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Look, we could very well easily buy this thing; but part of this discussion is also to ascertain whether the product is worthy of spending $2500 of contributors' money on what could be unimpressive. Discrete resistor ladders are hard to pull off - you would have to pardon us if we just don't believe for now. Last time we listened to others' opinions, we ended up with a $800 paper weight.

    As for the S19, our unit was not a lemon. It's performance and measurements actually fall in line with what is predicted with the poor tolerances of the resistors used. We've publicly offered to assess and measure other samples, whether from the manufacturer or other owners. No takers, while some owners have been trying to dump them, but to no avail.

    Keep in mind that some manufacturers have contacted us in the past when they felt someone was amiss. We've always been fair to them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2017

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