Audio Science Review Review

Discussion in 'Audio Science' started by purr1n, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. Degru

    Degru Facebook Friend

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    Lol I've been banned. Site won't load or takes ages unless I go incognito. My account is still active so it seems like he doesn't want other people to know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  2. nishan99

    nishan99 Friend

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    Yeah the JudeBan™ LOL.
     
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  3. Degru

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    In light of Amir talking about how Stax fit him, I would like to clarify this post.
    [​IMG]
    He has described Stax as hanging very loosely on his head, with no proper seal or sub-bass extension.

    It is very possible that he is hearing roll-off as is present on his Diana measurement, because his head is simply too narrow to seal correctly to the pads.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read about the Diana, it is designed to not clamp much and instead contour to the user's head, similar to Stax Lambdas. Obviously this sort of design would have a minimum width that it would still work well with.

    However, not acknowledging that perhaps he has problems with this headphone that aren't representative of most people and going on to make a review that purports to be objective and accurate, is very misleading to say the least.

    As I mentioned in that thread before I was banned, it would be unfair to say a speaker system is not capable of sub-bass if you listen to and measure it with the subwoofer disconnected.
     
  4. Thad E Ginathom

    Thad E Ginathom Friend

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    He expects Ear Speakers to fit and act like ordinary mortal headphones? :rolleyes:

    (Disclosure: I don't really know. I've tried Stax headphones once, maybe twice, for a short time at a meet. There's a heap of stuff I don't know. Like Amir .)
     
  5. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Most speakers he reviews don't have low or sub bass either.
     
  6. Mont789

    Mont789 Acquaintance

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    You can even crossover subwoofers with headphones too.
     
  7. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    Did you just infer A-man is a pinhead?
     
  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    He wants to use nearfields 15 feet back at 100 db RMS. It's crazy. Wait until he finds out that the most popular studio monitors ever were Altec/Urei horns, pre Behringer Tannoys, NS10m, and the smaller KRKs. And they all work better than the Neuman KH120 and Revels he slobbers over despite making most music sound like butt
     
  9. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    ADAM S3-A have been my faithful monitors for many years, but they work better as mid fields than as near fields.
     
  10. GoldenOne

    GoldenOne Friend

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    Earlier today Jude from Head-Fi posted a very comprehensive set of measurements using both the same rig that amir used for the diana review (including getting a proper fit on said rig to show that amir's placement was simply bad, and comparing it to a 'bad' placement of their own). And measurements taken with their own Brüel & Kjær 5128

    https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dia...byss-headphones.777618/page-224#post-16106695

    Amir I'm assuming did not read the post as he immediately assumed they used only one rig (which isn't the case).

    [​IMG]

    I was the one that perhaps "started the fire" a bit with this in my original post on the ASR forums, where I suggested that the seal may be broken. At the time I genuinely had just assumed that Amir may not have noticed/known, as I imagine it would have been tricky to get a good seal with the diana pads on a flatplate. I'd assumed the response might be a
    "Hmm, let me check that"...."Ok, I tested, here are the results" type deal.
    But his responses all but refused to entertain the idea that the measurement set might be problematic.

    I posted some comparative measurements in response on ASR, but in case that thread gets cleared, and so that more information is visible to those who might be looking, I've attached them below.
    These were given to me by DMS, taken from his Diana V2, showing both sealed and unsealed performance.
    Obviously we now additionally have Jude's information to compare as well.

    [​IMG]

    Sealed:
    [​IMG]

    Seal Broken:
    [​IMG]


    I honestly have no idea if amir did this intentionally or not, but at this point it is quite clear that his measurements are at best misleading and at worst intentionally 'curated' to make abyss look bad.

    Objective information is great, but it helps no one when the person doing the measurements tests things in a method they feel is more appropriate, even if it is not how the product is intended to be used, resulting in said product showing poorer performance than is realistic.
     
  11. Degru

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    Ha, I was just about to post about that. What a disgraceful reply from Amir. To top it all off, he posted a review for the DCA Aeon RT today where he measured very low distortion, and then made a jab at the Diana, citing his own measurement of it.

    Of course, he gave the Aeon RT very high praise over its FR and THD, and said basically nothing about how it sounds in the subjective section of the review. He also commended Dan Clark for using measurements to design his headphones. I think he's found his headphone version of Topping...

    EDIT: A more detailed reply from Amir. He points at the high treble distortion on Jude's 90db graph, saying "See? It's the same as mine!". Neglects to mention Jude's far better 104db distortion result in bass, and the difference in seal (which Jude demonstrated is possible to achieve on a 45CA).
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  12. Baten

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    Well he did say they're his daily drivers I think? And honestly, using measurements when working on the tuning of headphones do makes sense to me ... as a helping instrument. Of course using only measurements and no real-life listening is not the way, but I imagine going only by ear and no measurements can only get you so far? There's always a fine balance.
     
  13. Raimei Templar

    Raimei Templar Friend

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    ASR praising Dan Clark's stuff was not a event I would have predicted lol. Reddit loves to shit on DCA stuff, has for years, I wonder if this will set off mass cognitive dissonance. DEAD DYNAMICS, SHIT FR, OVERPRICED BULLSHIT might become HOLY SHIT BEST HEADPHONES EVAR overnight.

    I actually find his measurements of the Aeon quite interesting as some other measurements have shown the Aeons to have unusually high THD for planars (soundstage solo). I had wondered if the slightly higher THD combined with the minimal ringing compared to other planars was why I found them more natural sounding than Hifiman ET all. The mystery continues!

    Dont think there is any danger of DCA becoming the Topping of headphones as Dan dared say he intentionally tunes his headphones with less upper mids than harmon because that sounds more like real live music to him:)

    As a bonus John Yang pops in to shit on the Aeon in that very thread!
     
  14. mk801

    mk801 Almost "Made"

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    He hath provided us unwashed masses with EQ from Mount Sinai like manna from heaven.
     
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  15. Baten

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    When I first auditioned hi-end headphones I liked the totl hifimans and interestingly, the original AFC the most. I think Dan Clark makes some good stuff, although I agree the dynamics tend to be a little flat. And lol, John Yang comparing Aeon RT to open-back HD650/Ananda. Yeah, Okay....
     
  16. Degru

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    Yeah that's fair. Using measurements is definitely important. I've just gotten the impression that DCA tends to be heavy-handed with their tuning approach, overdamping the driver to achieve a desired FR but killing dynamics in the process. Not unlike designing an amp around measuring well.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    What's funny about this is that DCA headphones are also very sensitive to seal. It's up for the measurer to mess things up. TBH, I didn't even look at the Abyss Diana measurements - not worth my time. However, I am concerned.

    We've seen this before, Amir unintentionally intentionally messing up gear measurements. Personally, I think he gets sloppy when it comes to high dollar items, or items where he can't get the manufacturer to cough up a freebie. ASR operates on the principle of reverse-sponsorship: I will be lazy and perform a hack-job on your product unless you cooperate. Think of it as audio terrorism or audio protection racket, e.g. the mob.

    Great point and one we've been making. Unfortunately this get lost in people who only stare at graphs.
     
  18. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Alas, the subjective within the objective. Nothing, even measurements are black and white. There always needs to be a brain behind the measurements. And there must be a brain interpreting the measurements. Lots of room for subjectivity even if your goal is to be completely objective.

    I’m in favor of tuning headphones by ear. Maybe not the design of the drivers but maybe so as well. The Joe Grado HP1000 was designed entirely by ear AFAIK and for decades was by far the most neutral headphone on the market.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Other than bass rolloff, still is when compared to dynamics and non-modded orthos. Won't be anything close to the Harmoronic Olive curve though - we've lost that battle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  20. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    That’s good to hear. I only held back my comment because I haven’t heard the headphones of the last decade.

    and f**k the Harmon Olive Curve.
     
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