Best amps for orthos

Discussion in 'Headphone Amplifiers and Combo (DAC/Amp) Units' started by rhythmdevils, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. loadexfa

    loadexfa MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I think the stock LCD-4 is OK from the Stratus, I’ve found both tube and DAC synergy to also be important at that level of resolution and I hadn’t fully optimized my setup when I heard it stock.

    I think the Stratus is super flexible and is good with a wide variety of headphones but it can take a minute to find fantastic synergy with everything.
     
  2. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    @rhythmdevils or other members with experience: Searched for a Black Widow + Audeze pairing here and found your amp list notes (@RD) and that it was crossed off due to power limitations, does this extend to low Z Audezes as well, or just LCD-4, Susvara, etc.? I tried finding its specs on the internet, but all I could find was a head-fi post about pairing it with an LCD-2 where it lists the power output as 3.6W into ?? ohms.

    Also found some corroborating evidence against its use in @zonto's sale post for a BW2, in which he states, "I would not recommend pairing this amp with Utopia or any other sensitive / low impedance headphones/IEMs."

    Really interested in this amp bc it's not an unobtainium EC, it's more or less possibly gettable, and prices are just north of $1K when they do show up for sale from time to time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2022
  3. zonto

    zonto Friend

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    I would not apply what I said re: my amp to any or all other BW2 amps. That amp seemed to have a quirky, particular, and repeatable noise issue with my Utopia headphones that wasn't present on my HD600 and which did not occur on any other headphone amp I've had in-house. I was simply informing potential buyers of that particular amp of that particular issue.
     
  4. wadec22

    wadec22 Almost "Made"

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    Anyone try the Hifiman ef400? I'm considering ordering it to see how it does. Seems a great value. I assume QC/build is garbage.
     
  5. Johnny the Nose

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    I have enjoyed this thread as it is difficult finding a good match for LCD-X. As some have suggested here, the BHA-1 seems to have about the right amount of power for the LCD-X (and LCD-5 too), but new prices are a bit much and the used sellers have caught on and are charging more too. It is hard to find anything optimized for the low impedance LCD-X that provides an appropriate amount of power (maybe I’m wrong but I’m looking for somewhere in between 1-3 watts). Unfortunately, many good Class A solid state amps aspire to power the Susvara or the HE6se, which results in too much power into 20 ohms - and at the expense of volume-control, fineness, noise floor. My sense is that if you find yourself reaching for EQ - you have the wrong amp for your headphone. This is how I felt about the Jotunheim 2 with the LCD-X. Currently I am using the Burson Soloist and it certainly is overpowering as an amp and I know I could do better - but it has good detail, control, and blackground in low gain - and I don’t feel a need to EQ the headphone which is a good sign. I’d like to do better but find it a risky proposition to invest more than a 1000-1200$ in a solid state amp and so keep focusing on my dynamics on tube amps (currently Euforia) and listen less and less to my LCD-X. Perhaps the Mjolnir 3 will be the ticket, but suspect it will not be optimized for the LCD-X or LCD-5 either.
     
  6. Grattle

    Grattle Friend

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    I've found that I really like the Magni Piety with HE-4XX headphones. Really really clean sounding. I don't know that it's the best, but it sounds pretty nice for a workplace system.
     
  7. Pharmaboy

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    Many very fine SS headphone amps that might be ideal for you sonically will have this issue. I wrestle with it daily in my primary office system, in which I've had gain issues for years (my DACs out 20%-50% voltage to the downstream amp than the nominal 2.0 volt standard; and the amp is crazy powerful w/no gain stages, thus my gain issues).

    There are 2 says to contol volume passively, allowing you to keep the amp but get more play on its volume control:

    1 - Consider getting a pair of passive volume attenuators. The ones I got are the 10 dB RCA Rockwell attenuators, linked below. They cost me a little under $100 and seem quite sonically transparent. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the 15 dB version, which would probably work somewhat better. But even the 10 dB version did what I wanted, which was to let me use a bit more of the volume control on my amp. Note these are availabe on single-ended or balanced versions:

    http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/attenuators.html

    2 - Or you could considering getting a small passive volume controller to put in line between the DAC (or streamer/DAC) and the headphone amp du jour. Doing so would enable you to knock down the gain of the DAC or streamer DAC, thus freeing up more volume control play on any downstream headphone amp. These can get insanely expensive, but you needn't break the bank to get a decent one.
    Generally it's cheaper to get single-ended passive controllers, but there are some balanced ones that don't break the bank.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 21, 2022
  8. Johnny the Nose

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    Having reviewed this thread further, I continue to really appreciate the mission of this thread and agree that finding a great pairing with the LCD-X seems more challenging than it ought to be. Though I find it somewhat unsettling that the conclusion is to buy a Monoprice amp that comes with a crappy onboard dac in a rather frumpy design. While skeptical, I am going to take the plunge on the next liquid gold sale in the hopes of low impedance planar synergy. I am just not happy with the Burson Soloist 3xp, although the preamp outs are useful with my sub + monitors. While the LCD-X is detailed with the 3xp, it is not fun. Moreover, it is extremely overpowering and it requires you to use low gain (with loss of dynamics) or else get a significant level of hiss and loss of detail in medium gain. Though it may just be a downgrade or a sidegrade with the liquid gold in the end - Burson seems to have developed a bad rep in the past here
     
  9. caute

    caute Lana Del Gayer than you

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    check the FS forum, if you want, I have a LAuX listed there.
     
  10. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    I'm on a full on mission to find amps that synergize well with low impedance orthos. The LauX synergies well, but is not the best amp out there. I'm specifically trying tube amps and have bought and borrowed a lot that do not synergize well at all. But I know there are some that will.

    So for now, my recommendation is the LauX and wait for me to bust my ass trying tube amps until I find ones that sound good. Though some of them may be expensive or discontinued and unobtanium, I will hopefully find some that are available even if expensive.

    I refuse to quit until I've found something really really good that brings out the capability I know my own modded orthos are capable of. ;)
     
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  11. wbass

    wbass Friend

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    @rhythmdevils How about the Enleum/Bakoon amp (supposed to be "tube-like")? Or the Ferrum stack?
     
  12. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Not interested in solid state at all really. I love what tubes bring to the table. And there are already too many tube amps on my need to try list to bother with solid state amps. I also don't need a lot of power. I don't own a Susvara.

    I drive my RD-4 with a First Watt F4 speaker amp with a Minimax tube preamp in front of it for the best of both worlds (tube magic and pure class A with tons of current). It sounds awesome. It drives the HE6se very well too.

    So I don't need a ton of solid state type power, I'm looking for tube amps to drive my RD-4z and RD-X which are both low impedance. I do think they need power, just the right kind of power.

    Also, my experience with the Bakoon HP-1a left me not that interested in Bakoon. It was fast and resolving but it was very bass light to an extreme. Maybe the one someone else on this forum has is better I don't know, but I'm happy with my First Watt F4. :)
     
  13. MisterRogers

    MisterRogers Ethernet Nervosa

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    @rhythmdevils - what impedance range are you targeting? My TU-8900 with the stock Hifiman speaker tap adaptor drives the 60Ohm Susvara very very well. Switching to 4Ohm speaker out, it drives the Empyrean Elite very well. Some mucking around with the LPAD resistors would let you dial it in for most planars.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2023
  14. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    @rhythmdevils There's a couple Canadian tube amp makes if you want to give them a try or chat with them. There's Lloyd & Al from Maple Tree Audio, and Andrew from Wolf Ear Audio. Maple Tree has been around forever, and his website is as old as he is. Andrew is a newer guy who started up around 2016/17.
     
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  15. rhythmdevils

    rhythmdevils MOT: rhythmdevils audio

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    Im targeting the LCD-X, LCD-4z and S12 ortho iems. Even with 7316 super quiet 12au7 tubes the 8200 I have is too noisy for the S12 out of the headphone jack, let alone the speaker taps I also think it is too dry tonally and just does not sound as good as what is possible. I have a sound in my mind and I'm trying to find it. the Elekit 8200 did not do ti for me, though it's not bad at all. It is much better than any Eddie Current amp I have tried with these headphones. And its a step up from the LauX. Definitely recommended for those on a budge who want something better than LauX and like tubes.

    Yeah Im looking into custom builds, but I have to say I'm not keen to jump into another international custom amp after my experience with Otomon. I'd like to get Oliver Sayes to make me a custom amp but it's hard to get him to respond. I've reached out a few times. There are also a few builders I know like @uniqusrname and @peef who are building me some custom amps and they both have mad skills, I'm really looking forward to what they come up with. (yes, I know @peef is Canadian but I know him well)
     
  16. Johnny the Nose

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    It is indeed a noble quest you are on. However, I'm more interested in a Class A optimized for the LCD-5 and LCD-X that pumps just the right amount of current - instead of these crazy numbers and power you get from the GSX mini or the Burson Soloist and so many others at 14 or 20 ohms, and even to some degree the Liquid Gold X. But if there is a tube amp that can be found for the LCD-5 and LCD-X - I would love to know.
     
  17. Azimuth

    Azimuth FKA rtaylor76, Friend

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    And therein lies the issue…current drive, not voltage drive. And tube amps not so great at current drive. Even as powerful as the Quicksilver Headphone amp is, on LCD-2’s still sound slightly strained.

    It would take a mighty big tube amp for it, and one that could push that kind of current. That said, a DNA Stellaris is a fair amp for LCD-5/X from what a few others have said, but that amp still shines more on Sennheiser’s. And Stellaris has quite the price tag and wait time.

    If tired of the current SS options, at some point later will be the Schiit Mjolinr 3.
     
  18. Entropy

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    This makes me wonder: Do you guys think that amplifier pairings are still as relevant with higher-sensitivity orthos such as the Hifiman Ananda? Of course, the current requirements aren't insane, but since they're up at 25ohms, relative to the voltage, the required current is still pretty high. Interested to see if anybody has experience with this.
     
  19. Armaegis

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    Higher sensitivity anything will typically be an easier load and play nicer with a wider range of amps, but then comes the double edged sword of being more sensitive to noise.

    I'm not a fan of all this low impedance stuff lately though. I guess part of it is maybe fewer windings on the voice coil to lower the weight and improve speed/responsiveness of the driver, but we've had a power race in amps these past few years and that has resulted in a weird second generation of volume wars that pushes the headphones/iems louder and louder and gives you only a tiny sliver of range on the pot.
     
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  20. Pharmaboy

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    Damn, that is so true. Several features of this power race are illustrated by a couple amps I have, resulting in excessive gain in certain system configurations:
    • Monoprice/Monolith LGX, so good with planars in particular, has 2 issues:
      1. Way too much gain in the "Low" gain setting (I've never even tried "High" gain...impossible); and
      2. A wonky volume pot causing a distinct jump in volume @~10 o'clock on the dial, exactly where my non-planar headphones land unless I take steps to choke down the incoming voltage from the DAC
    • Kinki Studio THR-1, also very good with planars, has considerable power but just a single, very high gain stage. So again, unless the DAC's output voltage can be lowered, practical use of this amp is nearly impossible, with just a few mm's of volume pot play before my ears blow off
    I work around these peculiarities by using a DAC with a high-quality volume pot that governs both the RCA output pairs. I have to lower the DAC's output by 25% for the LGX, and 45% for the THR-1.

    Note: People often recommend balanced connection of DACs to amps. Yet using a balanced DAC & XLR cables with these 2 amps would result in ~50%-75% higher voltage reaching the amps. That would dramatically worsen my gain issues with each of these amps, even if the balanced DAC had a sonically transparent volume pot. This is why I don't believe balanced DACs are viable for either system in this office: both systems have gain issues with single-ended DACs that would only worsen with balanced ones.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2023

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