Blumenstein Orcas

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Merrick, Oct 3, 2016.

  1. Cakecake

    Cakecake Guest

    hmm. I like them for what they are.

    Comparison to speakers I've owned:
    - OSMT(DIY $120): reminds me of HD650
    - P1000 ($260?): sucks, don't really compare
    - Omega 3U ($500?): more screwy FR, thinner sound
    - BMR ($1200?): bigger sound, nice vertical depth and deep bass, not good for desktop usage though.
    - Speedster (DIY $400?): kind of like mini BMR

    That being said if I had to do all over again I'd settle down with OSMT or Orcas for desktop. I would get huge towers instead of any of these for the living room.
    Orcas seem more like half furniture/speaker price.

    YMMV, another data point from a nub. I want to hear what JBL 305 sounds like.
     
  2. zerodeefex

    zerodeefex SBAF's Imelda Marcos

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    For desktop usage I'd pick up vanatoos and call it a day.
     
  3. drfindley

    drfindley Secretly lives in the Analog Room - Friend

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    These are shockingly good.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    To be fair, were you running your current chain, with the Eitr / Gungnir Multibit / ECZDT with the Omega 3U and PH1000? I know the corners cut on the PH1000 cab, but these single driver beasts really cannot be taken on their own. They almost need epic amps or SETs with a 2-3 ohms output impedance to interact with the impedance bump of the bass of the drivers.

    I strongly suspect that the higher cost of the Blums made you work harder on tweaks, placement, new gear, etc. to find synergies - or even gave you reason to overlook things that deeply troubled you before, like no bass.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  5. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    It's true, I may have been one of the seven that heard them and then we texted about my impressions at some point. I've been buried lately with work, though @zerodeefex will scoff since he is the buzziest bee of all haha! Anyway, I heard them on a couple of occasions on a couple different setups. I just don't like them, they're not for me. I agree with @bazelio, they sounded hollow to me. I'd also add "metallic" in addition to the hollowness comment, not very dynamic, not very extended (or for a more charitable description we could say mid-centric) and kind of harsh on top. Maybe on a second setup I could see an argument for speakers that are more mid-centric and romantic, but then I'd probably get some harbeths.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    You told me they were "Kaka". I thought you meant they were good, because Kaka was a pretty darn good futbol player. Loved watching him play before age caught up with him. And why do all these over-the-hill futbol players that get rejected from the European leagues dominate MLS in the US?

    Sad. POTUS needs to make US futbol great. Not great again, because I don't ever think it was ever great. So sad that Landon Donovan was the best US futbol player ever. But people forget Tim Howard. He was a good goalie.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  7. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    LOL sadly the MLS isn't up to snuff so over-the-hill stars can jog around and do what they want on the field. This is not the case with the Blums if we extend this analogy to audio. But I like describing things as "caca" cause I'm a dirtbag. I'm open to the idea that Leonard Cohen's latest album might sound good on these speakers with SET monoblocks or something. But again for my hard-earned shekels (not according to ravi) i'd buy some harbeths or else go the DIY route.
     
  8. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    I can only really compare my experience with headphones, but I don't find them hollow sounding, metallic, or lacking dynamics. The first thing that struck me about them is how dynamic they sound. Maybe amping makes a difference?

    I agree that they are not extended. The treble is a little harsh and would be more so if it wasn't rolled off. I notice this especially in cymbals. They are a little too splashy and lack detail.

    I bought them because I have a small space, an existing SET amp, and didn't want to spend too much money. There is no way I could fit anything much larger. I figured these would fit my needs and I think they have done a pretty good job.
     
  9. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    @Stapsy yeah the harshness up top is kind of what struck me as metallic sounding. These with a good set amp seems like a good combo for them!
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  10. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    The Vanatoos are awesome.

    Based on my brief impressions, the Vanatoos destroy the Orcas in every department. That's just my opinion.

    OSMT sounding like HD650 is a good thing in my book. Specially for $120. That is a solid recommendation for a non-bullshit DIY solution.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  11. Stapsy

    Stapsy Friend

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    I can see what you mean, we are probably calling the same thing different names. The lack of definition in the treble has an impact on the timbre. I usually call that splashy.

    I would say a SET amp is a good combo for these speakers. I really want to know what they sound like with less expensive amps. Recommending someone build a setup around these speakers from scratch is different than trying to find a speaker that works well with the types of low powered amps headphone enthusiasts already have.
     
  12. brencho

    brencho Friend

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    THIS
     
  13. bxh

    bxh Friend

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    This is exactly why a few of us bought them, gateway to speakers while we already had great SET amps and didn't want to spend big bucks/sacrifice big room while getting a taste of decent speakers.

    I think we all recognize the limitations of tiny drivers in a tiny enclosure.
     
  14. Vansen

    Vansen Gear Master (retiring)

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    This may be my first negative set of impressions on SBAF.

    In my setup, these things get a thumbs down vote from me, but I don't hate them. Even with the low hours (around 100), I can't see burn in overcoming my issues. These do some things really well, and some music sounds amazing on them, but most music leaves much to be desired. Perhaps my setup isn't the best suited for the Orca, but I can't see them fitting my needs...

    The setup I used is as follows:
    Grace SDAC > Yamaha A-S801 > Orca / HSU VTF-1 (sometimes)
    u-turn Orbit > RSA F-117 > Yamaha A-S801 > Orca / HSU VTF-1 (sometimes)

    Starting out with good, these things are very resolving. I don't have a lot of experience with speakers, but these are some of the most resolving I've heard. Imaging is execptional, too, but the soundstage gets in the way of that for me. Even with great imaging, the soundstage is narrow and pulls you right up front. It's a little claustrophobic.

    With a three inch widebander, I'm sure we all know there will be major limitations with impact, but I expected more than what I got. My RIVA Turbo X shows up to the show with significantly more authority in this area. The top offending track in my testing was The Pretenders 'I'm a Mother'. I can't even get through the track on the Orcas, but the Turbo X gets a passing grade.

    My room probably isn't great, but it sounds like there are some box resonance issues down low. In my environment, the low end has some peaks (Portishead - Glory Box) and some dips. This makes it hard to integrate with my sub; I'm never happy with the sub settings. The Orcas are rear ported and I have them about 18 inches from the wall. My main speakers are front ported at the same distance, but don't have the same issue.

    There is a silver lining... Diane Birch's 'Nous' sounds absoluley amazing on this setup. I put this album on a few times, closed my eyes, and immersed myself in the music.
     
  15. Serious

    Serious Inquisitive Frequency Response Plot

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    I quickly built a cardboard speaker a few weeks ago to see if the FE83En had potential in a possible three way large bookshelf speaker I consider building (7-9" woofer, 3-4" midrange and 1" tweeter). As is the FE83En (and most likely most 3" drivers) is just way too limited in bottom end extension with its super high Fs (close to 200Hz) and high Qts, so for a tiny bookshelf I'd go 4" at least.
    I do run the FE83En speaker abomination crossed over to a sub around 100-200Hz from time to time, but in a nearfield listening setup the treble is far too beamy for my tastes. And even then it's too warm sounding (not something that shows up in the FR, but the directional treble makes it far warmer than the measurements would suggest - the FR as measured with an omni mic follows my ideal curve very closely).

    Now, I've never heard a proper Orca and a cardboard prototype isn't the most indicative, but I've also used the FE83En driver in my OB crossed over to a woofer around 400Hz, so I do think I know what to expect.

    I really don't get why people say it's resolving. The treble resolution is pure shit. The midrange is still shit, but less so. The smallest Raidho speaker would kick its ass, I'm sure. Heck, even the LS50 is more resolving from memory and that's not a very resolving speaker. But then that's not an apples to apples comparison as widebanders will always do things that two ways don't, even the smallest and shittiest ones. Also those speakers are not exactly in the same class, although I rarely consider speakers with less than 10-15L internal volume real speakers anyway.

    There are some interesting 4" drivers with tiny whizzer cones on AliExpress with much lower Fs and sensitivity. The problem is at that size the whizzer only handles the upper treble, so not sure how beamy it realistically is and how sizzly it gets, but I can see how that would work better than the FE83En. I might order a pair at some point to see how they hold up, if they ever get here.
     
  16. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    As read from here the Orcas have no crossover to compensate for baffle or any non-idealities. Which means the build will likely sound like ass (well done full range design I know off have some kind of compensation). Like others have pointed out, the low frequency extension is limited, and the response is a bit bumpy and jagged. IMO there are better and cheaper 4" drivers. I do not consider these well behaved full range drivers. But that is my personal opinion.
     
  17. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    [​IMG]

    Thanks to @Vansen I got a chance to use these in my system for a couple days thanks to the loaner. Definitely not my cup of tea as they are severely limited in bass extension, frequency linearity and impact but they sure are pretty and it was fun to see what driving a speaker directly from Aficionado could sound like. I ended up using them with my sub and the sound was passable and with certain genres like piano or strings they sounded decently pleasing, more so than measurements would indicate. I think the tubes helped here. Also, not being directly on axis the treble was more subdued than the measurements show.

    Anyways, measurements

    Left + Right:
    [​IMG]

    Left Green no sub Red with sub:
    [​IMG]

    Comparison to Philharmonic Audio Affordable Accuracy Monitors (Orca Green Phil AAM Red):
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    From 100 Hz to 1kHz the two speakers appear similar. Is that due to room modes or reflections?
     
  19. cskippy

    cskippy Creamy warmpoo

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    The null at 130Hz is definitely room related. You can see the broad similarities at 90Hz, and around 200Hz but I wouldn't say they are even closely similar as the 5dB difference between 200Hz and 600Hz is very audible causing a suck out with the Orcas which sounded unnatural. The bump around 2kHz made some sounds nasally and too forward.

    My room is untreated so there are a lot of reflections and issues but I'm sitting 2 feet from them so in a near field application they are fine.
     
  20. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Those measurements look a little painful. I wish I had a Loki around for this audition.

    It's not really fair for me to compare these to my $4k Klipsch KI-396-SMA-IIs, so I'm going to stick some Insignia NS-B2111s in my main system today and compare them to that.
     

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