BorderPatrol DAC SE

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by k4rstar, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. DEATHxMACHINE

    DEATHxMACHINE Friend

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    "Sell your Drop THX amp, buy the Monoprice THX. 2db better SINAD! I R Dum"

    I find that SBAF is more reasonable with science behind headphones compared to amps and dacs.
     
  2. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    The moment we started using Schiit gear regularly, apparently. :cool:
     
  3. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    I'm honestly an idiot discerning nuance via text lacking the usual nonverbal cues you get with face to face communication but even I caught that that one was deliberately provocative humour.

    2dB better SINAD doesn't seem like something that would make a massive difference overall, though I could just be deaf. If I were picking between either amp sure that might skew me towards the Monoprice as long as no reports of it being a shoddy piece of work come to my attention, but I'd not actually give a bother if I already had something like the (Mass)Drop THX on hand. Minute, arguably indiscernible differences in amp measurements aren't quite like DACs whose measurements deviate as much from "normal" as this one does.

    Do note I also think both Marv and k4 raised valid points in previous pages but each seemed more interested in putting the other down like lame horses than making reasonable concessions. It's no secret that loads of people here have ridiculously particular preferences and readily attack gear that doesn't fit those preferences (Dangerous Music Source, RME ADI-2, TH-X00, etc). While I'm biased and inclined to agree with Hrodulf et al about how the squiggles look, it still doesn't mean I don't care about people's subjective impressions.

    Personally I'm just very curious how something that measures like this might sound. Apparently I perceive white noise as plankton (hi Psalm), so I might actually appreciate the extra "detail", hah :p

    No but really I hate that people are at each others' throats over a fancy music box. What the f**k did a millennial spike all your coffees with kale extract or something?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019
  4. DEATHxMACHINE

    DEATHxMACHINE Friend

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    @Lyander That was an attempt at poking fun about purr1n poking fun about science. I couldn't think of a good punch line.

    I have heard this dac and I am not impressed with its detail retrieval. It heavily colorizes the sound by making it laid back and soft and people call it "natural" sounding. I do not think it warrants an entry price of $1000 for either coax or usb. Costs another $500 to have both coax and usb. I personally find this dac a joke.
     
  5. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    My point about being an idiot discerning nuances via text has just been proven. FML.
     
  6. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    If I were rich, I'd buy this DAC in a heartbeat and send it to you to prove that you aren't an idiot.
     
  7. Lyander

    Lyander Official SBAF Equitable Empathizer

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    But I could then still be DAC-deaf and/or a sockpuppet who relies on other people's opinions to form impressions for me :rolleyes:

    I'm exiting the thread now cuz noise, but for whatever it's worth I hope everyone involved in this mess (cuz by Jesus it is a mess) has a better day ahead. Or evening, whatever. Audio gear is fun, not worth grief like this I'd hope.

    If I do somehow get ears on this, will report back!
     
  8. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This is nothing. It's par for the course. Heated arguments like this are good.
     
  9. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    This is a polite tea party compared to some days/nights on Changstar.
     
  10. Luckbad

    Luckbad Traded in a unicorn for a Corolla

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    I debated adding fuel to the fire, but sometimes it's good to add to the dumpster fire.

    I had one of these on loan from someone a while back (a year maybe?). I didn't post impressions because I didn't want to make it hard for him to sell it if he decided to.

    It's been too long to provide useful impressions now, but the summary is that it was pleasant to listen to and overpriced.

    For the price, you'd be much better off with a Sonic Frontiers DAC with an Eitr, or even an MHDT Istanbul or Canary (the Canary sounds the most like it and is cheaper).

    Or a Metrum Amethyst.

    Or Modi Multibit.

    Or an ADI-2 DAC using the Slow or NOS filter. Plus a Saga.

    Or an Audio-GD NFB 2.32.

    The problem with the thing is that it is enjoyable to listen to but is bettered at what it does by too many other options that all cost substantially less.
     
  11. willsw

    willsw Friend

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    Interesting that you preferred it over the MHDTs. When we get our BP DAC back I'll do another comparison - we have the Istanbul right now. I'll also make a point to compare them on headphones, as before I only used speakers.
     
  12. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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  13. Hands

    Hands Overzealous Auto Flusher - Measurbator

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    I would be curious to do a DIY build around this:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ak4118-rec...094305?hash=item1eef6fb4e1:g:PzsAAOSwuaBckKd-

    Just need a transformer, case, I/O jacks, some wire, etc. You could get these all from China as well, plug and play it all together, for under $200 I think (mounting holes and stand offs being the tricky part for case, with everything else I’m sure can be found pre cut).

    They use a similar design, including I/V and LPF stage, for the TDA1387 and AD1865 boards they make too, the latter which I have some experience with and will post about soonish.

    The opamps are old and could stand to be swapped out with something like the OPA828. On paper it seems a great choice for R2R/Multibit if you can use a single channel opamp. Electrolytic caps worth inspecting and possibly swapping. Pretty easy ways to slap more caps and resistors on the output stages to further improve them. They are otherwise very OK, standard design.

    Doesn’t look like the LPF opamp has anything after it’s output, so may need to add a series resistor to handle loads from shitty cables, possibly add caps if there’s DC offset (though would sound best without).

    The Teradak stuff always looks so janky to me for some reason...

    I listened to the original Starting Point Systems 1543 DAC last night. It’s the one without the reclocker.

    It measures somewhat similarly to the BP DAC. Generally a bit better, but not much. Lower noise floor at least.

    It sounds much better than you’d expect. Nothing like the S19. It has a slight, grey veil to it, lacks in ultimate dynamics, and has a mild glare to the sound, with a tiny hint of roughness. Kind of forward and lacks stage space. But it’s overall fairly decent and pleasant sounding. Not necessarily what I’d call relaxed or soft either. It’s surprisingly aggressive and fast, separate from what I mentioned about any glare or roughness.

    I’m always pleasantly surprised when I hear it and ashamed that a lot of what I attribute to being plankton when listening isn’t actually anywhere close to reaching 16-bit capacity.

    The MOS16 sounded worse overall, I think. The S19 still resides in its own special place in hell.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This had recently come to my attention. I don't check these things. I would like to think that I can trust people, to not be duplicitous, create new accounts and interact with me, or leak sensitive upcoming product information that SBAF is privy too (or at least make sure it's accurate if it is leaked), or other dumb stuff.

    Not cool. I'm very disappointed.

    x2accts.png
     
  15. Ringingears

    Ringingears Honorary BFF

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    :(
     
  16. Taverius

    Taverius Smells like sausages

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    ... Really? TF is this, a nursery playground?
     
  17. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

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    If that means what I think it means it is a little bit naughty, given the fact that type45fan only contributed seven messages, I find that rather silly but not outrageous.
     
  18. mitochondrium

    mitochondrium Friend

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    In order to contribute something to the topic:

    I would not touch this DAC with a ten feet pole, if others like it so be it. I think nobody claimed the BP to be the best in high fidelity ( in the sense of that it leaves the original signal unscathed). As long as it’s limitations are known people may decide for themselves.

    I always wonder when people say this sounds analog or that sounds digital. I do not hear those differences most of the time. I shrug this off as me not being a golden ear.
    I wonder why some people have a strong preference for analog. One of the intrinsic differences between analog and digital is channel separation, being much higher with digital compared to a TT setup. Many people prefer some crosstalk, there is even M/S encoding for those who like it. If you do that to a varying extent depending on frequency you are able to improve the localisation of sound sources. So maybe what this DAC does is (among other things) sound more analog because of its channel separation of some 50 dB only.

    If that is the case I would recommend to spend the same amount of money for a decent TT than a DAC which may fix for you what you perceive as a inherent downside of digital audio.
     
  19. bengo

    bengo Friend

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  20. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    A shame. But it completes the picture and it isn't surprising to me. Maybe he'll come clean, express remorse, and apologize. If so, I say let's move on.
     

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