Cable Building

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Skyline, Sep 30, 2015.

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  1. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Looking good!
    What did you use for the basic 110Ω cable itself?

    JJ
     
  2. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    That one is just Mogami W3173.

    It's a bit "interesting" getting that through the shroud/boot on the connectors, but I like it better than the W3080.
     
  3. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    Ah, the big stuff, (18awg vs the 25awg conductors).
    I too like to use the bigger gauge wires as well.
    The Oyaide wire I'm using is 18awg as well but since it uses all silver wire it's really stiff and a bit more expensive.
    Also sense the cable is rather stiff the spacing between conductors tends to stay more uniform when bent, which in turn leads to a more consistent impedance from end to end.

    And silver tends to work better with the Mhz signals involved due to the lowered Ω and the skin effects at higher frequencies, er sumpt'n.

    Here is a link to the Oyaide cable.
    http://www.oyaide.com/ENGLISH/AUDIO/products_category/interconnects_cable/pg515.html
    Scroll down to get to the wire itself.

    JJ
     
  4. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    I'd be very curious to hear the active biased cables... but only if the bias voltage comes from an LPS. ;-) Presumably you'd use a battery. Anyhow, if you're convinced you hear something positive (no pun) with the DC voltage active and ever want to send them down to Cali for an audition, let me know. :)
     
  5. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I've never gotten around to doing what would amount to even a reasonably controlled comparison between biased and unbiased operation of such cables, so I'd be remiss in making any specific sonic claims at this point.

    Indeed, my interest in this type of cable was initially sparked simply by my being offered a job-lot of AudioQuest Colorado cables at a too-good-to-pass-up price. I think I paid about $30 per stereo-pair for half a dozen pairs of RCA and XLR cables. And I bought them more because they were a) pretty b) sounded conceptually interesting (despite a large degree of skepticism on my part) and c) were no more expensive than other well-made entry-level interconnects anyway.

    Having had them for years, I had my then-wife occasionally switch cables without me knowing. And when she'd done so, usually after a few hours of listening later, I just find something "different" ... that I can't really put my finger on. And when I go and check to see if she'd switched cables, invariably she had.

    Not having done a more formal evaluation is down to some interesting challenges with comparing an actively biased cable in both biased and non-biased operation. Namely, per theory at least, it takes up to a couple of weeks for the dielectric to become fully biased from it's nominal state, and similar amount of time for it to de-bias once the bias supply is removed. So, clearly, you can't A/B or back-to-back test with a single cable.

    You can use two cables, of course; one allowed to fully bias, the other fully un-biased, and A/B those, but even that's problematic as in most cases you wind up having to swap cables over to do it (most sources/amps don't have two suitable outputs/inputs).

    I've built a box to help facilitate such comparisons (the second case, above) seamlessly, with appropriate level-matching and seamless signal switching, but haven't gotten as far as applying it to cable comparisons. In fact I've done very little with it lately due to other factors chewing up my time.

    I'm happy to send a set out for people to listen to, but absent the above box etc. the results would be a rather less than reliable I'd want to hang my hat on. But they're neither hard, nor expensive to build, so easy for any DIYer to try for themselves.

    After I post the build, and therefore have a spare cable, if people are interested we can pass it around so they can see if they don't want to build their own.

    --

    And yes, I generally use a battery supply!
     
  6. bazelio

    bazelio Friend

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    If you have the materials, two cables are easy enough for eval, one with and one without the DC supply. Anyhow, let us know. I've been curious about the idea for a while but have never tried it out.

    I'm not sure about dielectric biasing at all, let alone the claimed 2 week requirement, which most likely comes from Audioquest themselves. Manufacturers love to claim 100s of hours of break in for all sorts of things because it's a lot more likely that eventually a user will convince themselves a change has occurred. They'll be less likely to have immediate buyer's remorse. And it'll be a lot less convenient to do side by side verification of that change. :)
     
  7. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    It's certainly doable to make up more than one such cable.

    And I'm not sure about it either, in any form or from any source.

    When auditioning things I generally let any "break in" occur without me listening to it during the break-in period, since I tend to think that, absent a few minutes maybe loosening up driver-surrounds (e.g. my TH-X00 were horribly distorted for the first few seconds), it's more of mental/psycho-acoustic adaptation on the part of the listener rather than any actual change in the unit/device in question.

    Thermal cycling of tubes seems to make a difference ... but this also seems to be more in the reduction of mechanical expansion/contraction noises (which wind up being audible in the headphones due to tube microphonics), until things have physically worked themselves into a state where they're not making audible pops and tinks etc. (which, of course, you can hear directly from the tube as it warms up even without ever plugging in one's headphones).
     
  8. uncola

    uncola Friend

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    Built a new cable to replace my 15 awg supra cable that used rhodium plated fake oyaide connectors.
    This one is Belden 8718 12 awg with real? acrolink red copper plated cryo treated connectors. Using it with a speaker amp
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  9. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    One more "conventional" cable, that I made up for a co-worker that got tired with the original cabling on his HE-500; posted more as an color-scheme idea than anything else ...

    HiFi Man HE-500 Cable.jpg

    He wasn't interested in a balanced option (with or without an adapter), but I ran four wires anyway, since that at least makes it possible to re-terminate if he changes his mind. Two black (grounds), red for right, purple for left.

    My fiance did the braiding on this ... and she's much better/faster at it than I am (any unevenness you see is down to seeing the cable from different angles, if you run it out straight then it's consistent from each angle).

    And, my god, I hate those little MMC connectors ... that'll be the last "classic" HiFi Man cable I offer to make for anyone!
     
  10. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Looks really nice! Yeah those connectors are the worst, I'm glad I bought a 10-pack because I wasted two on my first cable and one on my second (so I used 7 total for two cables) because I would end up internally shorting that tiny pin to the ground inside the connector.

    I'm hardwiring my HE-6 in the next few days to be done with it all, probably a 5ft terminating in XLR then I can just make adapters. BTW if anyone has any tips for that I'm all ears

    Edit: @Torq also, how do you (or your fiance) do the 2-strand twist between the splitter and the headphone connector? That's the part I need the most work
     
  11. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I did okay with the internal pin ... though I wound up using the tiny pencil and tip I use for hand-soldering fine-pitch SMD components to do it! I had more trouble with the ground sleeve. I damn near just crimped that part. The first two-attempts I had too thick a combination of strands and solder to get the crimp part in place (and even then it was a VERY thin combination).

    Sounds like a good plan with the HE-6 ... good luck with it all the same!
     
  12. fraggler

    fraggler A Happy & Busy Life

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    I have hardwired several of the old Hifiman headphones for people (HE-6, HE-500, HE-5LE) in the past. I don't know if I took good process pics since it was a while ago, but feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions. The solder cups are hard to get to, so you will have to take apart just about everything to get to them. Unscrewing the existing connector can be fiddly since they glued the nut down. Don't use too thick a wire, as they are harder to work with and solder correctly (someone had me put one of the old 24wire Norne cables in - never again). Some heatshrink, small zip ties, and a touch of hot glue do a great job of securing the new wire.

    Good luck!
     
  13. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Really sorry I missed this, I must have missed the mention alert or something. But luckily you got good answers from others right away. To follow up I did pin 1 for + and pin 3 for - as instructed by Zach himself. It's drawn like that because Audeze connects those two pins together (1/4 and 2/3) but it still works with just 1 and just 3 for ZMF and Audeze headphones
     
  14. porkfriedpork

    porkfriedpork Friend

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    Thanks @PoochZag, also @AllanMarcus and @Torq.

    I shorted each of the 1-4 and 2-3 connector pairs at the Neutrik terminal end, connecting each pair to a single pin.
    This worked perfectly for ZMFs and Jot.

    I didn't short the pins with a connector at the headphone side because my eyes
    don't see well enough and my fingers are way too fat.
     
  15. PoochZag

    PoochZag The Shadow knows - Friend

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    Just finished my HE-6 hardwire. I tried a new wire, this 26awg clear coat from BTG audio (http://btg-audio.com/webstore.htm#!/26-AWG-Clear-XLPE-wire-per-ft/p/11559158/category=2620180). At $0.80 a foot it's much more expensive than stripping quad, but it's really easy to work with.

    I have taken these apart before to do the Ohhgourami blu-tak and related mods, but even with the familiarity I really struggled at first. The drivers come off easily enough, but removing the connector in the cups was tough. Special thanks to @fraggler with many helpful tips, including chipping away at the glue on the connector nut with a razor blade, and then using 2 pairs of pliars to loosen. Once the nut loosens it's cake. I tied a knot on the inside part of the cup which kept it snug, then some hot glue to keep it there.

    Really happy with the way it turned out, and I don't have to deal with making cables with those SMC connectors again

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  16. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    Sorry, missed this until just now.

    I've tried a couple of methods:

    The one you're looking at was done by hand. Put the splitter in a vice (with soft-jaws/leather pads), and manually twist the cables starting at the splitter end and then up towards where you'll eventually terminate it at the headphone connector. One twist, by holding the cable and rotating my hand, then slide your grip up about an inch, hold the cable with the other hand, just below the end of the part that you have twisted so far, and then release/re-grip with the twisting hand again.

    The other is to use an electric screw-driver/drill, with an adjustable chuck, on it's slowest setting. Again, you put the splitter in a vice (or have someone hold it), then clamp the headphone-connector ends of the wires into the chuck (taping them helps), hold the wire taught, and pulse the trigger to reduce the twisting speed further.

    Results/consistency seems comparable either way.
     
  17. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I'll have to take better pictures of this one ... since it's the start (well, "middle", really ...) of a series ... but that'll need to wait for tomorrow ...

    Let's call this my "Evolution" USB cable:

    Foundation-USB.jpg

    If you've read any of my posts regarding DAC evaluations, you'll no doubt have been subjected me opining onmy less-than-stellar impressions of USB as a SOURCE -> DAC interface (generally preferring, well, anything else). Rather than keep whinging about it, I decided to see what I could do about it. While I, personally, may not like the current USB offerings, in general, that doesn't mean that it's not the predominant PC -> DAC interface today and it is, inarguably, VERY convenient.

    And I wish it sounded better ... so ... here we are ...

    Features/Characteristics of this USB Cable:
    • Separate DATA and POWER line runs.
    • Potential for crosstalk/interference greatly reduced.
    • Matches requirements for external USB PSUs (e.g. Teddy Pardo USB PSU*).
    • Wire characteristics (diameter, L/C/R, dielectric, geometry) optimized for purpose**.
    • DATA and POWER lines have their own, dedicated, DUAL layer shields.
    • Oversized POWER lines (18 AWG ... tough fit in those solder-cups).
    • Lower impedance ...
    • And, well, that's it, really ...
    • Dual, independent, double-layer shielding/grounding.
    • The twisted pair DATA lines are separately shielded from the POWER lines.
    • BOTH have their own, dedicated, double-layer shielding (1-foil layer/1-braided-copper layer), with independent ground-routing.
    • Full EMI/RF shielding/rejection,
    • Inline POWER line filtering
    • What looks like a standard "Ferrite Bead" at the DEST/DEVICE end of the cable, isn't. I just used the shell of one (and lots of potting compound) to house my own POWER line filtering "module" in (since they're cheap-as-chips).
    • This is a hand-built, "no-PCB", SMT-based power filter. You can think of it as having "point-to-point" wiring - except that all the SMT components are directly connected to each other; no PCB, no hook-up wire, nothing - can't do it more purely than this without a custom-built monolithic.
    (*I don't remember why this asterisk is here.).
    (**This is "marketing speak" for "I can read a standard/spec-sheet and build something that adheres to it". Sounds
    good, doesn't it?).
     
  18. Armaegis

    Armaegis Friend

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    Using the drill is really bad actually, as it puts a lot of twist/torque on the wires. Manually winding the wires around each other is far better.
     
  19. Torq

    Torq MOT: Headphone.com

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    I don't do it by "choice".

    And if (when) I ask people for money for this sort of thing ... I'll do it by hand. Though when I do it with the drill we're still under 1 RPM due to my "superior trigger pulsing skills". But, yes, manual is better IMNSHO.
     
  20. johnjen

    johnjen Doesn’t want to be here but keeps posting anyways

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    So either you have pick and place capability or you're using the 'big' stuff in the SMD pantheon.
    'Cause my eyes can go crossways all to easily just looking at the bottom half of the range of sizes in the SMD world.

    By way of example here is a pic of a fairly small SMD part, on a board, next to a dime.
    But this is by no means as small as they go.

    SMD:dime.jpg




    And separating the power from the data lines in the cable seems to help, although many available products with this feature fail to operate in some conditions. But I doubt it's due to the separation of the wires.

    And as a point of contrast the PYST USB cable has the power and data lines separated, AND it uses silver cladded wire, which can usually improve the bandwidth of these hi-data rate cables.

    JJ
     

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