Cheap AES transport

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by m17xr2b, Apr 22, 2018.

  1. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Some time ago I found a good deal on a Lynx AES16 card for 75£ and took it. I want to make a dedicated music pc for the least amount of money possible. Browsing my local ads I got a case and PSU for 20, PCI 1151 motherboard with an i3/4gb ram for 55 and a 240gb ssd for 40. For 190 this it's quite a bargain as it sounds just like my E22 which is four times as much and doesn't come with a pc. I do have a PCI riser cable on order to mount it properly so I can close the case.
    [​IMG]

    If if you can find one of these lynx pci cards which are quite cheep you can build the best bang for buck transport. An ideal candidate for roon.

    Next I'll try to see what all the fuss is about running this on windows server core and if it does make a difference.
     
  2. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    I got a computer with i3-2120, 6gb ram, psu, case, everything other than hard drive, also came with a 22" monitor and a old laptop, all for $50. If I had one of those cards I would have had a super cheap rig. But alas I don't, and I turned that computer into my gaming computer.
     
  3. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I had a hard time finding a PCI motherboard and a small mini itx case that will fit nicely and does have an industrial look. In this case going big is easier than smaller.
     
  4. Sunflower_sutra

    Sunflower_sutra Acquaintance

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    How did you get the lynx card so cheap?

    It's a shame there ain't like a ruff guide to building audiophiles pc's on a budget like recommend components. As there seems to be alot of people getting ripped off by hifi companies.

    Are you going to experiment with different PSUs?
     
  5. m17xr2b

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    I do plan on replacing the generic one with a quality brand, possibly BeQuiet or silverstone. I don't expect any difference but I'll see. I got the card from head-fi, the add was there for more than a week.
     
  6. spwath

    spwath Hijinks master cum laudle

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    Try to get one that is a seasonic or superflower oem. Those are some of the best ones. Silverstone uses seasonic. The higher end evga ones are superflower.
     
  7. e.schell

    e.schell Friend

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    I have one of the Corsair AXi series (AX860i) and they claim to use DSP to control voltage regulation etc... has anyone ever tested and or tried them out? I've had no issues with my system, and even have a big power hungry (possibly noise causing?) GPU...
     
  8. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    I do have the HX850i on my main desktop which also has the digital control. I'm not sure how much the psu will affect it since the the power is further regulated by the motherboard so an upgraded psu would be limited by those. If I get drunk enough I might do PSU rolling just for the hell of it.
     
  9. wormcycle

    wormcycle Friend

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    There is a website http://www.silentpcreview.com/Recommended_PSUs with very good info how much noise, not only fan noise, but electrical noise PSU will inject in your system. Generally do not go for more watts than your system will need.
    My fist music PC had Seasonic I think it was 400W and it was more than enough, for the second one I used EVGA 550 G3, very nice and quiet.
     
  10. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    Keep in mind this is the PCI version not PCIe which is mostly dead and you cannot find a new MB with it. I've seen PCI lynx cars going for around 100 when they come up for sale.
     
  11. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Facebook Friend

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    Aren’t all PC power supplies still based on switching/switch-mode rather than linear power converter? Especially now with the push towards extremely high efficiency, a switching PS tends to be more efficient. Not that is would necessarily be audible due to the extremely high switching frequency, but the power would be measurably noisy.
     
  12. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    At the moment I don't think power supplies make much difference for this transport. If that were the case my HX850i with a last gen motherboard and the Lynx E22 should sound better than the generic chinese psu with an 7y old motherboard on the probably more than ten year old AES16. Myth busted?
     
  13. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    Standard PCs are all SMPS, however there are aftermarket LPS mods. Like this kit to convert a Mac Mini to DC power

    https://uptoneaudio.com/products/mac-mini-dc-conversion-linear-fan-controller-kit-mmk

    I think this is partly why the Raspberry Pi is such an attractive device for media players. Linear 5V supplies are not too expensive and it's an easy mod to do.
     
  14. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    The lynx cards are super sensitive to noise and crap on the bus. So psu will matter. Moving the lynx from a general PC to a htpc with linear power supply made a big difference to glare/hash in the treble. Putting the PC on a Furman (separate circuit to the audio) made a further big difference. Lynx was worse than the gen5 USB until I did both these things (Gen 5 USB basically is completely noise resistant, but less refined and detailed).

    Note even with an LPS there is still a switching regulator to separate out all the lines needed. However different PSUs can minimise the noise going in.

    @Sunflower_sutra I wrote up a guide to building one of these here

    http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/garns-bang-for-the-buck-digital-source.4425/

    Another interesting option is this dante to aes module for €150. Just needs 12v DC. Haven't tried it but I hope to:

    https://www.micromedia.ch/?portfolio=dante-aoip-stereo-maker-boards
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  15. JustAnotherRando

    JustAnotherRando My other bike is a Ferrari

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    What's the advantage of this over a PC+Eitr, besides slightly less clutter- is it specifically AES? Costs look in the same ballpark.

    Another option for external DC power is to use a PicoPSU.

    http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-150-XT
     
  16. Garns

    Garns Friend

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    Sound quality is slightly better, more life and better microdynamics. The Gen 5 (so extrapolating the Eitr as well) is a bit smoothed over/veiled (maybe 5% difference). More importantly for me the tonal balance sounds different. Gen 5 is a bit scooped in the mids and has a slight emphasis and roundness in the bass. Lynx sounds tighter in the bass and more even throughout the spectrum.

    Eitr is way less hassle though and unless you are prepared to put in the time messing around with power then the Lynx is likely to have more hash in the treble.

    Looking at the efficiency figures for the PicoPSU it looks like it is also a switching regulator, so dunno that you gain anything over using mobo 12vdc input.
     
  17. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    @Garns, your bang for buck post gave me a nice idea. I have an HDPlex 100w lps that's just sitting around and if I can get my hands on a D945GSEJT for a good price I will give it a try. This way I can hook up the lps to the P12 and if what PS audio says is true I will have my whole system isolated from the mains.
    This has the advantage of being fanless as well.
     
  18. nachocheese70

    nachocheese70 Facebook Friend

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    @Cspirou thanks for confirming.

    I made my post in response to earlier posts on using “better” PC PSU like Seasonic or Corsair. While they are better in the PC world (more consistent voltage even under extreme load like OC, better efficiency/thermal control, better life ... etc) they may not be any “better” for audio since they are still SMPS. Review sites don’t post electrical noise figures because it is inconsequential for PC (voltage and current ripple are critical, but that’s different than noise).

    I would say a media PC only doing audio would never tax the PSU so no need for the special SMPS (except the fanless for ultraquiet). Like you said go LPS (but costs exponentially more unless your powering Ras Pi), or save money with regular reliable SMPS.
     
  19. m17xr2b

    m17xr2b Friend

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    A bit late, but yes the power supply makes a big difference to a Lynx AES card.
    Cheap and cheerfuller PSU = crap, grainy.
    Be quiet SFX makes the AES16 sound identical to my AES16E/L22 PC with a Corsair HX850. When I had the Yggdrasil with gen5 I found it was 5% behind a lynx card with a pc psu. Very similar overall and something like the eitr is better value by far.
    HDPlex 100W LPS, significant improvement over switching PSU, cleaner, easier to hear detail, better focus etc.
    HDPlex 100W and PsAudio P12 is another leap forward and a significant improvement over my gaming pc no matter how fancy and digital the power supply is. Blackness, microdetail, dynamics,soundstage are the best I've heard out of any transport experiment I've done. Also tube and cable differences are slightly easier to distinguish with a more transparent transport.

    I wanted a small footprint and built the same transport Garns recommended.
    Intel D945GSEJT
    2gb ram
    120GB SSD
    Lynx AES16
    M350 case with PCI riser
    Other adaptors.
    Total cost 250£ without the LPS
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Been using this for over a year and I don't think I'll ever change this type of transport. AES4LIFE.

    Installed win 10 32bit, slow as f**k, you can't really do anything else except listen to music. I've disabled internet and only keep LAN for RDP. Most of my music is on the SSD with the main library on a shared network location.
    Would make of an excellent rune device but I'm not into that sort of thing. Fanless is a huge plus.

    With my system almost complete I've decided to go mental on the transport because...why not?
    Wanted the best possible components money can buy, a motherboard with a solid VRM, a fast CPU but still fanless I can use as a 4K playback device for movies with a small footprint.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Built this as a proof of concept, as with any first attempt I've learned a lot and currently planning the second generation.

    Asus Impact VII - monster 8 phase VRM on daughter board, puts to shame even current gen motherboards.
    Lynx AES16e - could have used the AES16 but I didn't want extra adaptors
    Intel i7-5775C - overpowered CPU for the task on 22nm with IRIS. Cinebench score is better than my 6700K somehow. Last desktop CPU with iris graphics and will handle even light games. Wipes the floor with my 6700k integrated graphics.
    NoFan CR80 cooler , 45-50C when running JRiver. Close to 80 at 100% syntetic load, not bad at all.
    16GB DDR3 2133
    HDPlex 400W DC-DC converter power by HDPlex LPS on 24V
    Custom open frame case
    Esata 1TB ssd.

    Next step is to re-engineer the case as it's flimsier than I'd like, add RGB, front panel USB3.1 and IR receiver.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2019
  20. e.schell

    e.schell Friend

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    In the past few months I upgraded my main/gaming pc and not have some decent parts laying around I'm planning to turn into a pure music server / transport with the lynx e22 i already have. Was looking into an LPS a little bit and was trying to come up with a reasonable way (cost wise) to make that happen and came across the HDPlex DC-ATX converters and thought alright i'm on the right track but then saw the price of their LPS's and started looking around for a cheaper chinese made unit from ebay or anywhere else that seemed to be made from quality parts. Need to do some more research on what sort of power ratings the new lps will need to have and was hoping someone here could save me a little time and throw some ideas my way. Need to figure out if it needs to be more than just a 12v DC and how much amperage it needs in order to use one of these HDPlex DC-ATX converter to power the server. The system is an i7 4790k on an ASRock Z97 Fatality Pro mobo (will use on board video to avoid noise from a more powerful pci-e gpu), 16gb ddr3, 500gb sata ssd, 7200rpm 4tb hd and possibly another SSD down the road, a couple of fans and a corsair AIO water cooler. If i don't end up going the LPS route i will be using a Corsair AX860i digitally controlled PSU.

    Here are links to check out the DC-ATX converter and an example of an LPS I was hoping might work. I'd be willing to spend up to $200 on an LPS to work with the converter if I can find one that has plenty of power and is made with decent quality parts.
    https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-400w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-16v-24v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Curre...614925?hash=item1ef16f30cd:g:wVgAAOSwLgpcI0W-

    Thanks in advance!

    **EDIT**

    SHIT! I meant to post this in @Garns bang-for-the-buck digital source thread... sorry!
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2019

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