Coffee: we drink it or we get angry.

Discussion in 'Food and Drink' started by Jeb, Jan 16, 2016.

  1. Cryptowolf

    Cryptowolf Repping Chi Town - Friend

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  2. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    The ikea thing is a moka pot. They can make good, very strong coffee, but not really espresso.
    Espresso is expensive to do right, need a good grinder and a decent machine. Gaggia classic is at the low end of what I'd call a decent machine, there may be others now.
     
  3. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    So what ya recommend that it's cheap and awesome and will do milk steaming?
     
  4. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    This one?

    https://www.amazon.com/Gaggia-Semi-Automatic-Pannarello-Cappuccino-Frothing/dp/B0001KOA4Q

    I've been considering that one. U know it's any good? Any competitors to it?
     
  5. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    And keep in mind the Silvia is double...
     
  6. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    Yes, thats the Classic. It can make "real" espresso, not as well as more expensive machines, but that's always the case. With some "tweaks" it can be improved too.

    I have a kind of highly tweaked classic sitting in my garage, really should do something with it now that I think about it.

    I see Jeff just posted a comparison to the Sylvia, which is a better machine, but also more expensive.
    Biggest problem with the gaggia is it has a small boiler, so water temp varies some over the shot.

    Randy
     
  7. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    A little more information.
    There are a couple things that make the Classic a good machine, and set it apart from other "low cost" machines.

    It has a three way valve. This lets you backflush it. Backflushing cleans the old coffee oils and gunk out of your machine and should be done once every week or two.

    It has an adjustable opv. Lets you set the pressure to 9 bars. New machines come with their pressure too high, at 14 bar or something like that. There is some stupid reason for doing this, I don't remember what it was though.

    And throw away the pressurized portafilter, that's the cheating way to get crema.
     
  8. ultrabike

    ultrabike Measurbator - Admin

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    I'll probably end up getting the Gaggia deal there. But not just yet. I got other things in the pipeline.

    I do want to clarify that the Mr Coffee POS did not put me down because it can't produce "real" expresso with crema and shit. Or because it's not 9, 15, or 30 bars of pressure. I do not care if it's internal or external heating system, nor do I care about the mega-size of the tank.

    I mean I do, and I understand it makes a difference. But I'm not that up tight given the price and possible value for what you get.

    Mainly the deal breaker for me, and any random dude in the street, is the freaking plastic boiler seal. That kind of plastic has no business in a coffee machine, or any food related appliance. It's stupid. The boiler maybe a POS, but it seems it's aluminum. Why the f**k would you put that kind of plastic to seal the boiler is beyond my comprehension. It turns coffee into crap.

    Again, I have no problem with a $20 stove Italian expresso machine, or a French Press, or an American drip coffee machine (including Mr Coffee), or whatever one can get for a few dollars. It's that this machine is really a miserable piece of fail that has no reason for existence unless they replace that seal material. It's stupid.

    Don't buy this shit. The fact that is shit is 100% legit.
     
  9. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    Just want to weigh in on the Gaggia Classic: been using one almost daily for 4 years now, and it's only just developed some problems (clogged group head behind the screen) that need servicing. The little thing is a great step up from the cheap "entry" level espresso machines like $100 DeLonghi's and whatnot.
    On upgrades:
    1. Buy a naked/bottomless portafilter to diagnose shots better. When you mess up your grind, dose, and tamp, it will spray. When you get it right, the extraction becomes a visual treat.
    2. Replace the steam wand with the Rancilio Silvia's. Easy to do, much better steam.

    @randytsuch is the Silvia the next step up from the Classic (while keeping size as small as possible)?
     
  10. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    FWIW, I have an expobar office, a low end hx machine. Added a thermocouple on the hx head to help with flushing temps.

    I never really considered a silvia, if you want to upgrade either a HX or double boiler is the way to go. Being able to pull a shot and froth at the same time is great, once you get used to it you can't go back to a sbdu machine.

    I kind of stopped paying attention, but the crossland cc1 looks interesting. I think the early models had reliability issues, but it seems to be getting good reviews now, so it seems like they have fixed those issues. There may be other similar machines to the cc1, not sure. One thing I'd worry about on the cc1 is steaming power, not sure how long it takes to froth milk with it.
    Seattle Coffee Gear carries both the silvia and cc1 so they should have some insight on how the machines compare.

    BTW, the classic is actually pretty easy to work on. I've taken mine apart and worked on it many times while I've had it. It should be fixable if you are inclined.
     
  11. DigMe

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    Yeah, those cheap Gaggias are super simple. Actually the Expobars are really pretty simple as well. I’ve taken apart various parts of it to service this or that. I used to have the cheaper model Gaggia that had the same boiler as the classic but with a plastic body. I think was just called the Gaggia Espresso or something. It was a great machine to learn on. Another great thing about them is that they have a standard size portafilter, not the little mini ones that some of the other cheap home espresso machines have. I also modded the steam wand. The steam is pretty weak on them. When I got an HX machine I couldn’t believe the step up in silkiness of microfoam. The Gaggias can have inconsistent results due to thermal inconsistency. Smaller boiler and not enough metal to allow for real temp consistency. I got mine for $30 years back because this lady thought it was broken. I took a chance on it and it worked fine. She probably just got it vapor locked or something.
     
  12. Eric_C

    Eric_C Friend

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    The Expobars look a lot like the Rocket Appartamento and Domobar.
    Is it just my untrained eye, not knowing what to look out for?
     
  13. DigMe

    DigMe Friend

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    All of the Expobar Pulser line and the two you mentioned are heat exchanger machines based on a classic proven design though I’d say the two you mentioned are a bit nicer than the Pulser line. So yes, there will definitely be visual similarities among consumer level heat exchangers Because they all use the same method of circulating water through a big piece of metal to achieve some level of thermal stability.
     
  14. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    My machine does not have an exposed group head, its the office control, like this one
    https://www.wholelattelove.com/expo...BhtQWNJGTMqiqcWZHNi7FpHMvxrRIyOhoCHmcQAvD_BwE
    The flow sensor in mine broke a while ago, so it just works as a normal manual machine now, can't set time for the 4 buttons.
    Its not a real e61 group head, but close enough for me. Its big and pretty massive, which is what you want. That's the other thing to look for when you want to upgrade espresso machines, but e61's cost.

    For my classic, I added a preheater to help with the little boiler. Its basically a little metal box, strapped to the front of the boiler, so it's heated by the boiler. Water goes from the cold water tank to the preheat, to the boiler. It is a little tricky to do this, and not have stuff leak at 9 bars pressure, but it can be done with a few adapters from mcmaster and I used high temp rtv to seal my box.

    Also added a pid so you don't have to temp surf, which is another deal with SBDU machines.

    Randy
     
  15. Deep Funk

    Deep Funk Deep thoughts - Friend

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    Back to one espresso on average per day. In general one well-timed espresso is a good excuse to enjoy the moment...
     
  16. bixby

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    How dreadful will these sale ground coffee be? Green Mountain Nantucket Blend or Green Mountain Fair Trade Columbia, or Green Mountain Breakfast Blend? Anyone ever try these?

    One day sale tomorrow for $3.99 12 oz bag.
     
  17. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    You couldn't pay me to drink it.
    I recently bought some Trader Joe's whole bean coffee, found the one with the latest expiration date, it was some Columbian bean.
    Was drinkable, but barely. I won't be buying their beans again anytime soon, made a redbird order after that.

    Any preground coffee will be really stale.

    I've also been meaning to post to say because of this thread, I've been paying more attention to my coffee, and its helping. I started doing more experimentation with amount of beans used, brewing time, etc. I had been lazy, but this experimentation is yielding better results.

    Randy
     
  18. ButtUglyJeff

    ButtUglyJeff Stunningly beautiful IRL

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    I thought Green Mountain stuff was fine, that is till I started going to the roaster. Does the sale only apply to ground and not whole bean? And I don't care what anybody else says, if you can't drink the ground stuff fast, freeze it..... now I'll dive behind this desk....
     
  19. bixby

    bixby Friend

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    I thought as much.

    I did learn a bit today; in stark contrast to that youtube guru mentioned aboveI had a pour over at Peets. The grind was way more fine than that tuber and the sediment was mud like. Taste was very nice and was made from Fancy Ethiopian beans. I will try one of my cups later today with a finer grind, much less boulder like than the pics I posted.

    Really struggling with getting the nuances out of my two Redbird first time buys.

    And yes, the sale is only on ground stuff, some with Oct 2019 exp dates, so assuming a ridiculous shelf life of a year, probably roasted and ground in Oct of this year.

    EDIT: Sorry about all the typos and grammar errors, must get better and slower.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  20. randytsuch

    randytsuch Friend

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    To be honest, I'm not really getting nuances out of my redbird either, its more likes its not good versus good. But not the hints of fruit kind of flavors.
    May try some other roaster for my next buy.

    Randy
     

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