Critical listening vs listening for pleasure ?

This is just something I've been wondering about for a little while and was sparked by following Tyll's Big Sound articles and listening to the preferences people seemed to develop for different amps.

One little snippet that caught my attention amongst all the great info was that in his final round-up Tyll very briefly mentioned that when it came to just kicking back and listening to music outside of all the critical listening, the mono blocks were the ones he said he often chose (despite not being at the top of his overall list).

I'm not trying to read too much into what Tyll wrote nor could I ever afford that amp. But it piqued my interest since of late this kind of - just kick back and enjoy- listening is mostly what I have had the time for. So I'm interested - do you guys tend to have additional equipment that you know is not top of the list for technical performance and critical listening but is always your top choice when it comes to just pure listening pleasure ? Or are these two criteria one and the same for you ?

If not, then what is it about the magical sonic character of these amps/headphones that keeps your attention even when you know you have technically "better" or at least more accurate options ?

I'm sorry to be articulating this in a bit of a vague way but I'd be interested to hear all your thoughts and also to hear what your late-night don't-take-it-all-so-seriously rigs consist of.

Cheers!

 

What if critical listening gives me pleasure?

 

OJneg - of course no requirement that anything should be separated into categories that don't need to be separated.

Purrin - I'm curious what does your dull, veiled, low-fi kick-back rig consist of ?

 

Personally for me listening for pleasure is the only kind of listening I do. I don't really understand the idea of listening to hear your gear for me it's all about the music and this is where the biggest differences can be made in sound quality is with the source material itself. For me some gear that doesn't sound as good might be lacking in certain areas and not be able to deliver the kind of sound that really makes me want to get into it or on the other side it may have some qualities that are just plain annoying and make me not want to listen for very long.

 

Thanks logscool Yes, I understand what you are saying.

It just seemed that pro reviewers or serious hobbyist reviewers might sometimes make equipment choices that are motivated by different reasons than other listeners - e.g. based on the clear, uncoloured window it gives to hearing the individual characteristics of specific gear in the chain to help judge it on its own merit.

I was curious if that meant they also had rigs that were more geared towards a different kind of personal listening pleasure rather than the equipment that will best help them make specific recommendations for the rest of the community. And, if so, what & why.

Having said that, I'm interested in the ideas in the "what is neutral frequency response" thread that neutrality will actually allow for the widest bandwidth in enjoying different types of music. This would be in preference to putting all my eggs in one basket with an especially coloured or lush amp/headphone, which might initially elicit a certain soothing pleasure response but would ultimately prove to be boring in the long-run or only useful for late-night relaxation.

I can appreciate that no one here is likely to tolerate poor sound in their listening whether its for critical or casual listening but I also relate to the desire for low-fi sometimes. Occasionally when working outside all I have with me is my phone and i'll just play music or the radio right out of the onboard speaker. I don't sit there thinking about how awful it is. It's fine, and actually quite nice & uncomplicated - even though I know I'll be coming home to something much better.

At the end of the day, I just need to hear more stuff Thanks for your thoughts!

 

The better the sound, the less "critical" the listening.

Absolutely. Critical listening is for auditioning and stuff, when buying. Enjoyment is, hopefully, what results

 

I tend to agree with some of the later posts, I would like to put myslef in the listen for pleasure camp. I am searching for the ever elusive audio nirvana. I think we have all experienced this, the problem is we experience it from the first great record we hear, or first set of resolving headphones. It always seem I am chasing the dragon with complex expensive systems after that, upgrading this, tweaking that trying to achieve the audio nirvana I had when I owned my first Intel MP3 player with stock ear buds that held 30 low quality mp3's. I recently purchased a Multifrost and found nirvana when I played some of my favorite tracks that I thought I knew well, but I find myself already experiencing FOMO (fear of missing out) on something better, that the average person would not even be able to hear. I try and tell myself to just enjoy the music, let go of the critical listening side, but that is probably the curse of this amazing hobby. We all want to be listening for pleasure, but as @purrin said, the critical nature can take over and impede the joy of listening. I am sure it is tough for Tyll or other people that have heard it all to really sit back and enjoy without the critical reviewer alter personality sneaking in.

 

Josh - great points & very candid. Attempting to recapture a moment or feeling from music is something I find myself doing too. It might even be last night's listening session, for example. But it's never the same. Like the guys above mentioned - when auditioning gear critical listening is important and there's probably an important balance to be met in checking off the technicalities as well as ensuring the emotional connection is there so that the two can result in a more relaxed form of long-term enjoyment.

I agree, when you start to get worried about missing out - there's always something "better". No matter how much money you throw at it. One of Jason's most recent chapters on the Schiit Happened thread on Head-Fi addressed the topic very nicely.

And yes I'm very grateful for all the critical & grounded efforts of Tyll and also the gang here. It's good to hear that when all is said and done Purrin can still kick back with the radio alarm clock.

 

I don't enjoy listening to music on shitty, tonally wrong, or problematic with imaging gear. HD 650 out of at least a Magni/Modi, ODAC, or Monoprice amp for everything. Anything below the quality of an HD 558, I will just turn it off and watch youtube videos. Maybe a Koss Porta Pro or HD 25 is the lowest I could go but I they still annoy me. I tried to listen to death metal for a minute on my friend's ATH-M40x and I just couldn't even though the cans weren't that offensive sounding. Laptop speakers activate my tinnitus. I want to smash stuff like the DT 250 with a hammer for the horrible bass hiss and channel imbalance problems in every pair. Some Audezes I've heard make me wish I had an ax.

 

Psalmanzazar - I felt a little like that about my Audeze's but have decided to sell them rather than take an axe to them - even though they are made of wood so I understand the compulsion.

Doing a DIY project like the Crack has been a nice little antidote to some of my own battles with the endless desire to acquire. Despite the fact that it's also great sounding - It gave me a different set of criteria through which to evaluate & appreciate gear. i.e. I had to build it and not electrocute myself first. And it sounds better because I built it myself - as Doc B said it would.

Of course it wasn't long until some of the old compulsions returned and I started to think about endlessly rolling disproportionately expensive tubes or stuffing it with lots of boutique parts. But i'm not skilled/experienced with electronics so I would have to work hard & patiently to implement any upgrades. So that would make it less like a race to acquire and a little more like a gradual hard-earned process - perhaps a bit like your TT piggybank, Purrin.

 

Listening for pleasure for many involves doing something other than just listening - working, a shared social setting, driving, cooking, etc. maybe jamming along to music that you otherwise might not if that's all you were really focusing on.

From my perspective, and part of my problem, is that for the tunes/concerts I really enjoy I want them to sound better and better. The hobby and many of the boutique vendors obviously wouldn't exist if that weren't the case.

But at what point does "critical listening" go from studying the music to just more or less validating system components?

 

I wonder if whoever robbed Audeze burned all of those headphones like the Joker.

 

Thanks for the update on the ZD, Marv!

I mostly listen to music for pleasure or casually nowadays. I find listening to music through my car's speakers to be pretty pleasurable, since I don't pay as much attention to the sound quality and the drivers themselves don't have any glaring problem. It's the same thing when I had my part-time job in college. I used my philips shoqbox sb7220 through my odac or geekout 450 and enjoyed it too. The most important thing to me is the music itself, as long as the transducers don't have any glaring problem.

Every once in a while when I have time, i'll listen to music critically. I'd turn off the lights, lie down on my bed or on the floor (it's much more comfortable for me than sitting for long periods), and enjoy listening to an old album or experiencing a new one.

That being said though, I do have a tolerance limit for when I'm using my hd650s. When I know that I'm not getting even close to the potential that the hd650s have to offer, I'd rather not listen to them. That minimum threshold for me is probably the GO450, which is probably the "weakest" amp/dac that I have around unless you count my dx90 or ipod shuffle.

Like Marv said, there will ALWAYS be something better out there. There are better dacs out there (and TTs) than the Yggdrasil of course, but the Yggdrasil is 100% "there" for me. I don't have any need or want to go up any further. Heck, I probably would have been fine with the Gungnir Multibit too (my DS gungnir is just sitting in its box right now). The valhalla 2 is almost there for me, but not quite. I've had the pleasure of listening to EC 2A3 Mk IV at my friend's house multiple times and love how it sounds. But unfortunately for me, that's way out of my budget. The valhalla 2 is more than good enough for me while I hold out for Marv's ZD.

As for speaker setup, they're almost always used for listening to for pleasure. I find it easier overall to not nitpick about speakers when I'm listening to them. Anyone else feel this way?

My advice: discover what's "acceptable" to you in terms of SQ threshold and what's enjoyable without you having to nitpick on anything. A setup that you can enjoy both casually and critically is wonderful. If you can achieve that with a lower budget setup, props to you! There are so many better choices nowadays than there used to be, largely thanks to Schiit.