DAC Blind Test: Modi2 vs ODAC

Discussion in 'Blind Testing and Psychoacoustics' started by purr1n, Nov 17, 2015.

  1. chakku

    chakku Friend

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    Since 24bit can contain 16bit there's really little to no point of not setting your output to 24/44.1, there won't be any resampling involved and it doesn't improve nor degrade the sound like fiddling with the sample rate can but allows for 24bit streams.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
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  2. SKiring

    SKiring Friend

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    Ah but I'm using the Bifrost Multibit so it's 16bit on the DAC anyway, but that's not a bad idea, I don't think it will make any sonic differences but looking at it technically I can't really see a reason why not to do it.

    Thanks!
     
  3. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

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    ASIO is louder and has better staging than nu-DirectSound so the Windows mixer is still going stuff in DirectSound. 16-bits is just the DAC chip, the input can be 24-bits. The Yggdrasil is only 20-bit. D-S dacs are 2-5 bits.

    24-bit also lets you use digital volume control in Foobar to gain more volume pot headroom for brickwalled recordings. If you don't use digital volume control at all,16-bit ASIO is fine.
     
  4. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    o_O not gonna play super mario soundtrack even?
     
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  5. T.Rainman

    T.Rainman Acquaintance

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    The Bifrost MB does indeed have a 16bit DAC chip.
    However, Atomicbob's measurements suggests around 14 bit ENOB.
    This still isn't bad though.
     
  6. OJneg

    OJneg The Most Insufferable

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    Cuz it has everything else :D
     
  7. lm4der

    lm4der A very good sport - Friend

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    Just thought I would clarify some of these issues:

    Windows does provide native support for USB Audio 1.0. This supports 24/96 audio natively. However, as we have all encountered, it does not provide native support for USB Audio 2.0, which is the spec for higher sample rates. Thus manufacturers have to provide proprietary drivers for these higher sample rates, and this does of course contribute to a lot of driver installation headaches. Devices like the Modi 2 operate fine on the Windows native drivers, as long as one has it set for the 24/96 sample rate. But a lot of higher end DACs do require the proprietary drivers right out of the box.

    That said, a lot of USB chipset manufacturers are now supplying their USB Audio 2.0 drivers directly from MS Windows Update. The CMedia chipset used in my Bifrost Multibit seems to be correctly supported by the drivers that come from MS Windows Update. This process can still hit some hiccups, so it's not like we're out of the woods, but I think it is getting better.

    Windows does explicitly provide a native, direct, unprocessed audio path to the device - this was called Kernel Streaming in Win XP, and is now called WASAPI since Windows Vista. ASIO is also a direct path, but requires proprietary drivers.

    What things could MS improve in Windows for consumer audio? Obviously adding a generic native USB audio 2.0 driver. Also, the Windows Mixer, which is the default playback device, could use more sophisticated algorithms for sample interpolation when upsampling. But really, Windows does a pretty nice job of doing what an OS should do, and you can pretty easily achieve a well-tempered audio playback setup with Windows.
     
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  8. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

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    If I device does not support exclusive mode in the firmware of the USB controller, then WASAPI push will only be able to bypass the godawful DirectSound resampler (which starts rolling off in the upper mids then jumps off a cliff), not the still audibly bad digital volume control part where DirectSound floats the 16 or 24-bit PCM stream to 32-bit and dithers it down to whatever you set windows to output to the DAC (hopefully 24-bit). DirectSound's ditherer is much worse than foobar, SoX, or professional mastering software.

    Since the ODAC does not have exclusive mode enabled in firmware, you can only compare it to the Modi with audibly inferior protocols. There's no way to really do an ABX test of the actual DAC parts of them on Windows with the raw PCM streams. The Modi's implementation is just much better. I'll post my own AB results in a new thread.
     
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  9. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Non Voting Friend

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    Sort of update. I don't think you can bypass the Windows mixer with WASAPI Push in non-"exclusive" mode anymore after a new protocol comparison with the ODAC tonight. The "improvement" just seems to have been a slight placebo for me. The Objectives are going back in the box.
     
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  10. mtoc

    mtoc SBAF's Resident Shit-Stirrer

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    hi, would you tell us more details about Yggdrasil vs Soekris?
     
  11. Priidik

    Priidik Friend

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    I wrote my ramblings to the old forum here : http://www.changstar.com/index.php/topic,2099.120.html
    Since then a small upgrade was made to Soekris dac, it got new firmware and better filter.
    Shoot a PM if you're interested in fine details.
     
  12. SoupRKnowva

    SoupRKnowva Official SBAF South Korean Ambassador - Friend

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    Noticed today with my new Modi 2U that with the volume maxed out on my Vali 2 but with nothing playing as I switch between the inputs on the Modi that with USB its completely silent, with the Optical input i get like a weird electrical hash sound and with the RCA input theres a white noise. seems weird to me that the USB would be the silent one out of the bunch...i heard it first when i was trying my JH-13s on the vali but i can hear it with the 650s as well.

    Anyone else notice this?

    Edit: Huh, turns out that the other end of my optical cable wasnt plugged in(I swap it from going to my stereo or my headphones from my HTPC based on if I'm watching tv alone or with other people), and once the Modi 2U was actually receiving a signal on the optical the electrical hash noise went away. Makes me think the white noise on the RCA would go away too.

    so overall, never mind my original comment.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2015
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    This thread moved to new Audio Science section.
     
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    I know there were two other threads with blind tests. Can't seem to find them. @atomicbob did one with an ABX comparator box. Can someone find links to them so I can move them here?
     
  15. Biodegraded

    Biodegraded Friend

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    There's 'blind test: I constantly fail' on P4 of the 'General Audio Discussion' subforum:

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?forums/general-audio-discussion.42/page-4

    Some others in there maybe you'll want to move too. Haven't found Bob's ABX box yet.

    You going to keep a dedicated section for unsanctioned measurements so bozos like me know where to put them? :)
     
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  16. Kernel Kurtz

    Kernel Kurtz Friend

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    So this is an old thread, but I read through it and did not find any mention of the "tweaks" done to the Modi. I am curious what those might be though.....can somebody point me in the right direction?
     
  17. atomicbob

    atomicbob dScope Yoda

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    A brief mention of ABX testing Bifrost MB and Gungnir MB can be found in the System Synergy Special Sound thread here .
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Would be interesting to set up a blind test of warmed-up vs. cold multibit DACs,
     
  19. landroni

    landroni Friend

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    To validate this, you would need to establish first that (1) the two DACs under comparison have identical testing performance and/or that (2) when both are warmed up, test subjects cannot tell the difference between the two units.
     
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Finding his inner redneck

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    Easy enough. Measure them and also test while both are warmed up.
     

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