Dangerous Music Convert-2 DAC Review - Stream of Consciousness

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Magnetostatic_Tubephile

    Magnetostatic_Tubephile Friend

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    People thought they're done with the DAC game thanks to Yggdrasil A2... they're not! They've actually barely scratched the surface! :Violin:
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  2. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    How do you use the Convert-2 as "master clock"? Do you need a CD transport with a BNC clock in, apart from AES/EBU?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  3. allegro

    allegro Friend

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    Thanks for this. Completely rules out the Convert-2 for me.
     
  4. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I'm assuming either an internal buffer, and/or your CDP source clock better be good enough.
     
  5. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    I don't get it :(
    Sorry if I wasn't clear enough, what I wanted to say is this:
    Convert-2 has three word clock modes: "normal, slave and master" according to the manual.
    In order to use it in "master" mode, which seems to be the preferred one due to the reported high quality of Convert-2's internal clock, is enough to use an AES/EBU source (for example, Lynx AES16 card or a CD Transport with AES/EBU) or does it specifically need a source with a BNC clock input in addition to AES/EBU (for example, CEC TL3N transport, some Esoteric transports, etc)?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  6. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    The manual is linked earlier in this thread. Per the manual:

    "Feature: 3 Modes: Normal, External and Master. Benefit: Normal: With the button de-selected (dim light) the Convert-2 will sync to any incoming clock via any of the digital 4 | DANGEROUS MUSIC sources. External: Selecting this button will make the Convert-2 slave to an external word clock source. For example, if utilizing a master studio clock, this would distribute WC to the Convert-2. Master: Depress the button for 5 seconds. The LED will blink. Now the Convert-2 is the master studio clock and other digital sources will slave to it. Audition the difference."
     
  7. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    It doesn't require a data source with a wordclock-in BNC. I am using the Marantz CDP under master mode with the clock manually set to 44.1kHz. Per instructions, the clock did need to be manually set instead of being on auto.
     
  8. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    Thanks! @GoodEnoughGear @purr1n

    What confused me was the part in the manual that said "Benefit: Route clock signals with word clock cables using the Convert-2 as either a master or a slave."
    Is good to know that it can be used as master without having to spend $3k in a CD transport with clock inputs.
     
  9. Mithrandir41

    Mithrandir41 Friend

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    I respect that. But I do love my Metallica, Peter Frampton, Steve Stevens and Opeth DVD audios. The Blackwater Park remix sounds so much better than the harsh original CD.
     
  10. msommers

    msommers High on Epipens

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    No kidding, holy f**k it's hilarious.
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    This is wise. There is no possible way that any piece of gear will satisfy everyone or that any piece of high end is going to do every sonic aspect better than others. In many cases, it's a matter of balancing things (squeeze a good thing out one way, crap comes out another way - probably explains why most government schemes with the best of intentions f**k people over - the people who didn't vote for them, and even the people who did - for ten years until they figure out how to make it right). Based on a few limited impressions, I would hold out for the Crane Song Solaris DAC evaluation for a presentation may be slightly on the relaxed side of Yggdrasil. The Convert-2 is just one of three "well regarded" DACs that I will be evaluating in the next two months. A DAC-off, may be scheduled in November, where other people are able to chime in, but under the circumstance of controlled gear, should provide a better overall picture.

    On the "muddy" aspect, the Gungnir Multibit A2 is actually less muddy than the Yggdrasil. Now that I am directly comparing both Yggdrasil and Convert-2, I don't think their tonal response differs much. Both are capable of plenty of bass, but the Convert-2 does present bass as less muddy and more articulate. It's noticeable in Daft Punk's Get Lucky, that section with the rapid succession of electronic bass drum kicks. This is what I meant earlier by Mike Moffat bass. Now that I think of it, the Convert-2 is likely on the bassier side of pro-audio DACs. Bass extension of both DACs is excellent. I didn't sense any areas in the bass that were more emphasized than others. Keep in mind my shit goes down to 22Hz with minimized peaks and nulls. OB for the win.

    Now as far as the higher contrast "enhanced" presentation and soundstage peculiarities of the Convert-2, which seemed to work well for popular music and headphones, these same aspects work against the Convert-2 for classical music on speakers, particularly orchestral works. The resolution advantage of the Yggdrasil Analog 2 (which is also superior to that of the Gungnir A2) is much more obvious with classical - classical is naturally mic'd and not post-processed to shit using multi-track systems because the record company only wanted to pay $13 per hour to the sound house on Taylor Swift's latest album - there was no money left over after the mini-orchestra, background dancers, Foley / sound-effects, and extra producer (all 15 of them) fees.

    The thing about soundstage for stereo is that it all faked for popular music. While naturally mic'd classical performances don't change the nature of the Yggdrasil's upfront soundstage, I do find myself sitting in row 10-15 in orchestral performances instead of row 1-5 as with pop recordings done in the studio (MTV Unplugged does not count - that stuff is still run through a board where the engineers manufacture a soundstage). The ability to layer front-to-back on speaker systems is a HUGE advantage of the Yggdrasil over the Convert-2: violin 1 and violin 2 upfront, cellos upfront on the other side, next row is woodwinds, after that are bassoons blown by the big ladies, brass in the back, tuba guy in the back to the side, double-bass dude back there too. I actually get the sense that the sound from instruments propagates from their locations on the stage towards me. Not only this, but the Yggdrasil also conveys a better sense of the size and dimensions of the venue from the ambient cues, the reverb from the concert hall. I swear, if one is familiar with the venue, one can tell which concert hall the performance was recorded in.

    It's not that the Convert-2 isn't resolving. It's more a matter of different contrast or "gamma" where the shadow detail isn't brought up so much as the Yggdrasil Analog 2. A few have commented that this type of presentation from the higher-line Schiit DACs is unnatural; that too much low-level information, that should have stayed low-level, is thrown into one's face. The counter-argument is that the Convert-2 presentation is too "square" or too "Hi-Fi". What is right? I do not know. Perhaps it's up for the listener to decide. Actually I won't use this Stereophile'esqe cop-out. Personally, I think it's somewhere in between.

    Finally, because classical does tend to be more sparse than busy pop music, at least more sparse most of the time, the disadvantages of the Yggdrasil Analog 2 being softer or muddied, or the Convert-2 advantage of being less prone to congestion are minimized. The resolution advantage of the Yggdrasil does give individual instruments or sections a richer texture from more evident overtones. However, in pop recordings, I feel the timbre is more spot on from the Convert-2. The Convert-2 just has a superb sense of unadulterated purity in how timbre portrayed in such recordings - again, makes my head turn because I think what I am hearing is in the room. Also, the orchestral crescendos of the Convert-2 are impressively mighty.

    Yes, I screwed with you guys by leaving the best for last. I hope some people immediately sold their Yggys ans purchased the Convert-2 for the wrong reasons. Personally, I'd like both DACs to be in my system.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  12. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    There's one aspect that plays in favor of Yggdrasil A2: upgradeability
    Convert-2 isn't sold as being upgradeable.

    Also, I remember reading Mike's posts about BWD and the upcoming Schiit CD transport, which could be a huge upgrade in performance compared to AES/EBU or S/PDIF.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  13. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    In closing, a few things: I'd like to thank @cskippy, @Xecuter, @PTS, and those I forgot to mention for bringing these TOTL pro-audio DACs, to our attention.

    I would also like to thank Schiit for making DACs that didn't have non-existent bass to go with unbearable digital sounding highs, and restarting the trend of multibit DACs, R2R or otherwise. Without Schiit, the I doubt the we'd be as far as we are today with DACs.

    I also curse the garbage poorer quality implementations of discrete ladder DACs and most anything ESS Sabre.
     
  14. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    Sort of confused now. I guess the best thing would be to hear the dac before making decisions. Also wait for evaluations on other pro dacs. I thought the felt better transients, blackground, lead to better microdynamics. I would like to have both dacs, but I think its overkill for someone who listens to music 45 minutes a day.

    The Yggdrasil 2 is an amazing dac. I hope I just get that out of the way before anyone thinks I'm shitting on the dac. These are just nitpicks...it just happens that the dangerous convert 2 is around the same price.

    Funniest thing is I feel opposite on Yggdrasil's strengths. When I listen to pop/modern genres, the sound is compressed enough to just forget about the grey background. Sound is compressed/punchy/mastered brightly, so it helped counter the muddy sound. This along with strong bass and slam make it a very involving listen.

    I feel classical is actually the Yggdrasil's weakest genre. I felt it today as I was listening to Rite of Spring today. Yes you get some nice things like you feel the woodiness of the oboe and the breath and the sounds in between, but overall as I continue to listen.... sounds relatively too softened to me. The dynamics are there but somehow doesn't feel raw enough of visceral enough. Having played it in an orchestra and having heard it live many times....It isn't the same. It keeps coming back to the transient edge thing. Like the initial attacks on many things just feel dull /slightly diffuse compared to the rest of the sound that comes immediately after it. This takes away a feeling of clarity and cleaniless, and air for me, though it gives the sound a feeling of more heft. As for the decay, while you get fantastic decay and gradients in between, It never cleanly resolves to 0 or "blackness" as you call it because of the grey background.

    Overall I would say Its like having a slight felt cloth under the strings of a piano, so when the hammer hits, it hits softer, but the softness and uncleaniness of the cloth can give you more details, albiet with less ring and clarity. maybe sounds like soft pedaling. Again this is more overblown than how i describe it, but i feel its there. Its apparent easily when listening to Solo piano.

    While imaging is more cookie cut and fantastic for orchestral pieces, I get quite confused with Solo piano. It sometimes sounds really wonky. I was listening to Krystian zimerman's new schubert sonatas album and was confused as I was getting different depth perception from him playing different dynamics on different voicing lines and sometimes even on different notes of the same line. Coming from live concerts, I usually hear the seperation between lines, but no with this weird tunnel depth constantly moving back and forth with different dynamics. Its like the piano sound is constantly swirling around me and makes it very distracting. (I mean it sounds good, but i can't help but it is unnatural). Also, I know some people will love that Yggdrasil will dig up every pedal press the pianist makes, but for me I'd rather not hear it and keep it low in the background.

    Coming back to transients, I feel the same way with jazz. I was listening to Caravan by Gonzalo Rubalcaba and Airegin by Brad mehlau Trio I can't feel that the beginning of every drum hit is slightly soft at the beginning, missing the crisp of the attack.

    Think the Dangerous Convert is the right choice for me @purr1n ? Lol I was hoping to just close the chapter on dacs with the Yggdrasil 2, but its your fault for teasing. The Yggdrasil already sounds fantastic, might as well just stick with it and buy the campfire solaris which you also teased with " HOLY SHIT!!! BUY THIS NOW". Lol Which I know doesn't come lightly from you.
     
  15. ufospls2

    ufospls2 Friend

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    Oops I posted this in the wrong thread.

    https://www.superbestaudiofriends.o...erous-music-convert-2.6874/page-2#post-230368

    To people reading this. Chill. Don't firesale your current DAC just to get a Convert 2. I haven't heard the A2 Yggdrasil so I can't comment there, but you may or may not like the Convert 2. They are also widely available (at least in Canada) so you might be able to go hear one (Guitar Centre?) before selling your Yggdrasil (or similar.) Convert 2 is a great DAC imo, but that doesn't mean that the Yggdrasil isn't good anymore.
     
  16. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    @Cellist88: It comes down to this:

    Do you use speakers?
    Do you have a hyper resolving setup?
    Do you use the balanced out on Yggdrasil?

    Yggdrasil SE out sucks. There is more of a blanket.

    Yggdrasil demands downstream gear that commits very little sins of omission to get the most out of it. Odessey amps do not cut it. Emotiva does not. Anything from Parasound under $3000 does not cut it, as with all crap from Audio Advisor for less than $3000. Vidar does not cut it. Aegir barely cuts it.

    Powered monitors? Go home. 54 piece passive crossovers in your speakers? Same deal. 85db inefficient speakers. Probably not.

    Yes, the dynamics and crispness are mean with classical on Convert-2, but I cannot do without the resolution, the textures, and the front back layering, and sense of sound propogation from the Yggdrasil. Can't have everything and sometimes need to choose what you can live with and what you cannot. Those are personal decisions.

    Buy and keep both.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  17. Cellist88

    Cellist88 Friend

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    I am using studio monitors......A pair of eve sc307s with a ts110 sub. I think they are very resolving, but I guess I should go home because they are powered monitors? Think I'll stick with they Yggdrasil then as there seem to be trade offs and I'm just being a nitpicking bastard Lol. Thx!
     
  18. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Downgrading to Gungir A2 might work better. A bit less muddy.
     
  19. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    On the other hand, the Convert-2's disadvantages against the Yggdrasil are probably not going to be noticed on powered monitors.

    As for microdynamics, the Convert-2 is better in the sense of faster more instantaneous changes in small volume levels. It does not have a huge advantage here. I would chalk it up to being "barely discernable". However, microdynamics are closely related to microdetail. The Convert-2 does a little more of what is available to it. The Yggdrasil has more to play with, even though it is not quite as good at it.

    Hope this makes sense.

    P.S. Dynamics and transients are better dealt with where it will have the most effect: speakers, not DACs. Backloaded horns, open baffles, front loaded horns, compression drivers, high-efficiency, etc. If something needs to be in a box, then a big box. Drivers made for small and/or narrow tower enclosures suck. Been there and done that. I have $$$ drivers sitting around that I used for those more wife-acceptable projects. There is no replacement for size and displacement. Bigger sized speakers will have better dynamics and faster transients. The parts for my speakers (some parts purchased used), cost less than a Convert-2 DAC. The downside is that it took me 7 years to figure out what I was doing, and another 3 years to actually do it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  20. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    I don't know what has changed on the Bricasti since I last year it many years ago. Search my HF DAC thread for impressions. That Bricasti was actually auditioned on the same amp I have now (with the exception that I put in better Monolith interstage transformers since then). @bazelio who heard a very recent version of it at a show said it sounded very smooth - but this could have been a factor of the Bricasti guys running it with complimentary gear, or perhaps there could have been updates.

    All I can say is that the Bricasti M1 back then compared against the Convert-2 did not sound this fun and also exhibited more sigma-delta weirdness. The Convert-2 also isn't $8593 plus you giving a blow job to your local audiophile gear dealer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018

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