Dangerous Music Convert-2 DAC Review - Stream of Consciousness

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by purr1n, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. Xecuter

    Xecuter Brush and floss your amp twice a day

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    Yeh, you can BYO: However half the point of the m2 is the crown, dsp synergy.
    May as well get 4367 if you aren't going to go the whole hog?
    Check this build out with m2 and mark levinson.
    http://keithyates.com/home-theater-of-the-month-the-hahn-theater/
     
  2. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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    Is this the 'Super Dome' driver?
     
  3. bengo

    bengo Friend

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    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  4. GoodEnoughGear

    GoodEnoughGear Evil Dr. Shultz‎

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  5. soekris

    soekris MOT - Soekris Engineering

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    As per manual, the input selection have an "Auto" mode, which it power up in. If you only have the USB interface connected, it could look like you have two times USB inputs but you're just selecting USB in "Auto" and USB in "USB"....

    There are absolutely no audible difference between using USB selected directly and by "Auto", the signal path is exactly the same.
     
  6. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    ATC is all about the midrange. Too bad they’re British. Thus weak in bass and treble. There are also plenty of people who prefer Neumann mids despite them being less dynamic. Cleaner and less British.
     
  7. direstraitsfan98

    direstraitsfan98 D2Girls v2.0

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    If your budget is willing... I wanted to get the M2 but it isn't nearly as common to see on the used market as the 4367. I read somewhere that Synthesis has fatter profit margins, so more likely than not its why dealers tend to represent the Synthesis line, and not the Pro line. I learned shortly after I bought my 4367 that you can actually just buy some used crown amps off ebay, and save a boatload of money. Anyway, if a M2 comes up for sale locally I might sell my 4367 and grab it! By all logic, the M2 *should* sound better given all the dsp, and room correction that one is supposed to be doing with it. I could do the same with the 4367, but... I dunno, the audiophile 'purist' in me just wants to use them as is. I'd have no qualms messing around with dsp, and room correction with the M2, though, since it seems to make more sense to do it with that.

    JBL claims frequency response down to 20hz on the M2, I'm pretty sure that's with DSP, though, right?
     
  8. 9suns

    9suns [insert unearned title here]

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    That ATC midrange is the midrange, don't forget it is 95db-1 watt and 16 ohms!
    Just put something like an AE TD12X in a transmission line, the ATC mid and Raal 140-15D tweeter (both the AE and Raal are 95db-1 watt and available as 16 ohm), and 3 of your fav tube amps...
    The ATC mid sounds incredible even with ATC's own Class A/B amps, it's just in a class by itself IMO.
     
  9. Negura

    Negura Friend

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    PMC are quite special. I was so impressed by a PMC BB5SE setup driven by relatively whatever Bryston power amps and whatever D/S DAC, that a couple of years ago I went out of my way to find and buy a used pair of PMC IB2s. PMC on paper nothing too impressive, OEM and custom OEM drivers, no fancy audiophile parts in cross-over and very expensive. But really amazing end result.

    Imo the PMC studio range (passives, haven't heard the actives nor cba with that) is a couple of levels above the Fact 12,8 I heard in the past, in terms of dynamics, resolution, transparency, and overall jaw dropping wtf did I just hear factor etc.

    ATC also ticks the boxes (that midrange driver). They used to share the mid range driver and some other parts with PMC studio range. The latter later on probably copied it, erm I mean made their own at an OEM factory.

    One of the main differences between PMC and ATC studio ranges, is that the PMC have much more dynamic and punchier bass (partially due to the tunnel loading thing and part due to tuning). Still quite neutral, with a bit of added punch (think Abyss vs hmm HD800 in headphones). The flipside of that is that ATC bass is much easier to integrate in more realistic actual rooms as opposed to studios. Treble isn't particularly "special", but it isn't rolled off or sweetened on big PMCs. They can guarantee instant warmfag lover kills .
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  10. Psalmanazar

    Psalmanazar Most improved member; A+

    Pyrate Slaytanic Cliff Clavin
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    Klein and Hummel used to use ATC midrange domes too before ATC discontinued their OEM drivers. Then Sennheiser integrated K&H into the Neumann mic brand and made their own cleaner measuring domes but they lack the massive magnets for efficiency
     
  11. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Did an engineer leave ATC for PMC? I swear, this stuff happens all the time. LOL, that PMC mid. Probably sent it to China for reverse engineering job - might be good - China is getting good at that kind of stuff.
     
  12. Negura

    Negura Friend

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    We may never know all the detail, but it's long enough ago, that the big PMC mid ranger is also one of the references in 3 driver designs.

    That ATC mid driver might still be sold under license to various 3rd parties I think.

    There was a company doing custom speakers using it, in this part of the world.

    Nope no longer doing it. I wonder why lol.

    https://www.wilmslowaudio.co.uk/k100-monitor-1667-p.asp

    "a worthy alternative to the now unavailable ATC SM75-150."
     
  13. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Fascinating conversation about drivers and speakers I’ll probably never afford (or more likely, never want to spend that much cash on).

    But maybe this needs to be moved to another thread?

    P.S. How about those Elac Debuts??!! Ain’t they something!! ;)

    Btw, I own smaller ATCs (SCM19 v2) - love em! Although they don’t have that seperate midrange dome that is so coveted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  14. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    M2 cabinet looks to be about the same size, but hard to tell. Might be a slightly bigger cab, tuned ports that take advantage DSP that helps extend it down from 30Hz to 20Hz. I don't think you need to worry about more bass extension. JBL is one of those companies that when they say 30Hz, they really mean 30Hz. In reality, 30Hz is the point of close enough.

    Well, I found out that the M2 requires those DSP Crown amps. Two of them! I figured that $6000 price was too good to be true. JBL has learned from Apple to keep customers in their eco-system. That's good for people who do not have time to waste and have the money, but bad for people who like to tinker around and assemble a system from best-of-breed gear.

    Probably not worth it. The woofers are the same, and the compression driver is the same dual driver type, just a notch lower on the 4367. The M2 waveguide looks more advanced. The M2 is more suited in a professional environment where 0dbFS is preset to a reference SPL. I can only see these being used in a large screening room or large mixing stage, or in Doctor Strange's HT room when he was an asshole surgeon. The 4367 will have more room for audiophiles to play around and possibly get better results.

    P.S. I'm not against DSP. I've actually built speakers with DSP x-overs, response shaping, driver time alignment, etc. It's easier to do it now with the MiniDSP stuff. My next project may be a three-way DSP speaker. Does certain things better, and certain things worse.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  15. Cspirou

    Cspirou They call me Sparky

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    I actually thought PMC and ATC were the same company. Just serving different markets.
     
  16. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    I owned ATC and PMC speakers for years and I ultimately gave up on them because they lacked the dynamics that I prioritize over everything else. They were all fantastic speakers though and you can't go wrong. Well, except they don't hold their value that well on the used market so I suggest buying them used.
     
  17. purr1n

    purr1n Desire for betterer is endless.

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    Added to the shortlist.
     
  18. Negura

    Negura Friend

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    Funny this. What attracted me in the first place into PMC, was the incredible dynamics of BB5SE, alongside resolution, articulation and other technicalities. Considering their core buyer audience lacking in dynamics would be unacceptable. I suppose the differences are all in the context/details.

    I no longer own PMC, but for different reasons. I became interested in the coherence and transparency of high efficiency concentric drivers.
     
  19. Priidik

    Priidik MOT: Estelon

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    I see Volt making very similar mid and bass drivers. At least these are still being manufactured and sold to mortals.

    It's not uncommon that speaker builders 'design' a driver that a competent driver manufacturer then engineers to it's best ability to the constraints. It shouldn't be too hard to reverse engineer the dome and let it be built where ever.
    The end result probably isn't perfect copy of the original down to fine details.
    I see lots of 12'' and 18'' bass drivers around that are suspiciously close to Altec drivers of 70's and 80's.
     
  20. dmckean44

    dmckean44 In a Sherwood S6040CP relationship

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    Definitely and there is no perfect loudspeaker. I might even end up owning PMC again someday if circumstances were to change.
     

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