DAP discussion thread

I'm a huge believer in overall synergy of different gears in an audio chain so I always mess around with different combinations. I did try the DX170 -> RS2 -> NX7 pairing and it worked well. I personally would not carry this setup for on the go use but just sitting at the balcony for some coffee/tea or for bedside use it works really well. Unlike the Mojo 2 which was very sensitive to USB source and sounded best from Optical In, I did not notice a drop in sound quality when using the DX170 as the source vs just using the RS2 without the extra interference. The only thing is, just like any other DAP there is a slight delay in audio when playing Music Videos on YouTube, no issues with Audio only playback.

 

Thanks so much, nice to know those 3 work together!

 

Hi AudioFile12377--Quick question regarding formatting of micro sd cards. I went ahead and took the plunge and purchased an RS2 and am wondering what your experience is with whatever micro sd card(s) you have in your machine.

I was thinking of getting a new 512GB or 1TB card (probably SanDisk) and wanted to ask the age-old questions: Does one format in the machine itself or just format in a Windows PC? And what formatting type is preferred? ie, exFAT, NTFS or FAT32? Do you remember what you did? Thanks for any advice!

 

I would recommend that you format it from the device (RS2) itself. It will also work when formatting it from the PC, I think I had mine formatted with exFAT file system.

 

I'm glad I held off on writing this review on the wm1am2 and the zx707, since the zx707 update firmware introduced terrible sound.

I would like to preface the review, that these units may sound different from stock, because I did my best to disable all sound adjustments, including completely disabling the process by USB debugging, as well as deleting all storage and settings. Also High-Gain only.

SOUND ADJUSTMENT PROBLEMS

Sony makes great hardware, but their software tuning of the sound is absolutely. Just look at the Mr. Walkman firmware, and you can see just how many versions they have and how they have even region specific tunings.


Even if you have the sound adjustment on direct sound or nothing on, it sounds just like the zx2.....It adds an artificial gloss over the whole sound that makes soft and plasticky. It will dampen and muffle the sound, slowing it into a slow gooey sound. While this helps with hearing microdetails, it compresses the sound macrodynamically and ruins PRaT. You can near the blackground suffer and the noise floor when the process is running.

I hate both players with any of these processes running, even on "direct sound on"

You'll hear people say on head-fi say confusing things like the M2s are warmer, and some people say the M2 is tuned more neutral. The answer is both because of this sound adjustment process, which does the above, and also compresses the sound within a certain range, tucking in the bass and taking away the top air, making it more narrow and therefore feel more "neutral"

The zx707 initially had less of this, with the sound adjustment giving a minor subbass boost and a upper mid lift/forwardness which brings out harshness into the sound. You turn it off, it becomes more neutral, with more precision, more air, but with a smaller body of sound for each instrument(makes it sound more 2d). However with the new firmware update yesterday, they did EXACTLY the same thing as the WM1AM2, tucking in the bass, taking away the air, slowing down the transients, and making the mids muffled and gooey. I almost ended up selling the player that day because you cannot revert the firmware on android and it sounded awful. I fiddled around more, and got rid of the sound adjustment only for the music player, but anything streamed, you will have to deal with that shitty sound. So if you get a zx707, do not update the firmware.


After doing everything to adjust these settings, both the daps sound amazing. They sound neutral, with a hint of warmth, but excellent technicalities. I love them both, and am having a hard time choosing which I prefer. Those who are familiar with the Sony house sound from the wm1a, or zx300 will be familiar with that balance.

Zx707-

Better blackground, which leads to a more contrasting sound,
Faster, Cleaner Sound with snappier transients and hits, but has metallic timbre/ feels slightly digital, More of a studio sound
Stronger Subbass, with faster hits, but the bloom is not as tight/controlled as the WM1AM2

Smaller stage, but well defined. Each instrument/sound is presented smaller body, faster, but with precision and tightness. Overall the sound is more airy and less dense/filled , but with the precision and the small stage, it allows you to hear all the elements, and hear how they all mesh together on a macro level, making it very cohesive and musically involving. Also because of the fastness of the sound with smaller density, you can hear the reverb of the space/stage.

Think of it more like looking from the outside into a stage.

WM1AM2

Much heavier, beefy.

Better technical performance, especially in microdynamics, staging, seperation.

The sound is also much bigger/bolder in everyway. It feels more analog/real, less digital, less harshness in upper mids/treble, but also slightly slower sound. This also leads to a slightly less airy sound, greyer blackground.

I would say the soundstage is almost 2x as big as the zx707. Each instrument is presented with bigger size/big body/density/3dness, which allows you peer into each individual sound, to hear all the details/microdynamics. This also makes everything effortlessly seperated and layered.
It feels like you are on performing on stage with all the different sounds surrounding you. Bass is also stronger, but very controlled/tight.

This makes it a very full sound, that fills the room, which leads to more a wall of sound feeling. That along with a slightly less clean background makes it feel slightly less zippy and dynamic as the zx707. There is so much going on that's spread out over a big stage with detail, that you somehow lose the sense of how everything comes together as a whole on a macro level to propel the music forward.

Think of it as seeing everything on stage in detail, but not being able to hear how everything comes together from outside the stage from the audience's perspective.

Both are super enjoyable, and with the SONY house sound, mitigates any thinness/harshness of the DUNU Zen Pro, which sound fantastic. I suppose maybe Sony tuned the players with sound adjustments in a way that would be beneficial in mitigating timbre problems in the kilobuck Multi BA iems, or trihybrid thin sounding EST driver, and the slow sound can help with phasing problems, but I don't think that's the job of a DAP.

I don't listen to much music these days but curiosity got the better of me as I realized you can't really trust any head-fi opinions on sound as they aren't very specific, or have any reference point in sound.

Still haven't chosen which player to keep after finally dialing them in, but one will have to leave soon, as I don't have a need for two daps.

 

You should do a Sony DAP compendium.

 

I am disappointed that the Sony Android DAPs when running them in Android Mode is not bit-perfect except using their built in music app. I heard using USB Audio Player Pro can work, but it is a waste if I want to use Apply Music on the damn thing.

 

On a plus side...You can run Sony Sound processing like those upsampling, DC phase Linearizer, Vinyl processor, EQ etc with Apple Music.

I usually keep mine in Airplane mode but in case I want to listen to something I don't own, I'm happy that I have an option in same DAP. Yes, no way to bypass upsampling with apple music but I run EQ with my DAP as all IEM have one issue or another and hence I never listen Bit perfect out of DAP anyways

 

After playing around with high end Android-based iBasso DAPs, both of which sounded great, I wanted something that was less expensive and more compact. Reading reviews of most of the mid-tier Android DAPs, they all had some major Achilles heel, either a very old version of Android or terrible processors and even bad sound from some. I decided to give the Hiby RS2 a try. I had asked some people here about it and based on their impressions, I didn’t think it would be for me, but it ticked a lot of boxes on paper so I thought I’d give it a try.

Long story short, it sounds excellent, the R2R architecture does provide a more realistic timbre and note weight that even the $1,500 DX320 didn’t quite capture.

Pros:

Sound - Rich, detailed, realistic. There may be a slight roll off in the highs but both of the transducers I use with this (IE 600 and ETA O2) have sufficient treble energy that a slight roll off isn’t an issue. I was worried bass would be rolled off as well but to my ears it extends very low and with plenty of slam when called for.

Size - Android DAPs are the size of phones in many cases. The RS2 is smaller and to my hands more ergonomic. It feels truly portable.

Battery - Much longer lasting than the Android DAPs. I’ve only charged it once and have been using it for about a week and it’s only down to 48% at the moment.

Two SD card slots - I currently have a 1 TB card with the bulk of my library and then a separate card with just Grateful Dead. It’s awesome.

Neutral:

Soundstage and layering - Not the best, not the worst, the device isn’t a layering and positioning king but it also doesn’t completely squash the soundstage either.

No streaming - I’m listing this as neutral because while there’s an obvious downside, no onboard streaming, I’m pretty sure this is part of why the RS2 has such exceptional battery life. There’s a few reasons for this. First, no Wi-Fi or modem to drain battery or take up space internally which could allow for a bigger battery. Second, without streaming the screen can be smaller and lower res since it doesn’t have to support any specialized apps. Smaller screen means less battery drain when it’s on.

Cons:

Side buttons - The play/pause and skip track buttons are thin, nearly flush with the chassis, and hard to differentiate. This doesn’t have Sony button ergonomics at all.

Slow - Especially with over 1 TB of data like I have in mine, the UI can be sluggish when accessing music. This is my biggest complaint with it.

Overall I think the RS2 is a very good DAP, provided you don’t need streaming. I’m now curious about the Hiby R2R dongle.

 

If possible, I recommend you try and use the RS2 as a DAC paired to an external Amp, the sound quality improves nicely with better dynamics, imaging and it balances out the Highs (not as rolled off) while still retaining that natural timbre. I personally tried it with NX7 & Gryphon, both Amps have their Pros & Cons but both are an improvement over the internal Amp. I also pair my RS2 with the IE 600 (along with the Edition XS when using an external Amp) and feel that they balance each other nicely and pair better than when using my Phone (LG V60), DX170...

I hear you about the side buttons, it gets worse when using the RS2 with the supplied case.

 

I have heard that the RS2 paired with an external portable amp is a step up. And because the screen on the RS2 only takes up half of the front panel, rubber banding the DAP and amp together wouldn't be an issue. I will probably explore that in the future.

 

Question: Could I get a general consensus from some friends about the NW-A55? Just snagged one for a great price, kinda just wading into the DAP world as of right now.

 

My daily driver! I can't speak for others regarding your ask for a general consensus. My opinion is that it's an underappreciated gem. Often overlooked in favor of other models within the line-up. Flavour leans a little warm but not overly 'organic' as some of the higher end models are. Great timbre. Good dynamics. Fantastic battery life. It's an IEM specialist that lacks the power for most headphones, even easy to drive ones. If yours is an EU market model it will be volume limited. Changing the firmware region will alleviate this.

The only other person I can think of with an A55 is @scblock

Most of the Sony crowd here are on higher end models.

 

I figured not many here would be on the budget models . Thanks for your input. Got mine for some laid back hammock/balcony IEM listening, so I feel as though it fits the bill perfectly for that. I also plan to upgrade it with Mr. Walkman firmware. For ~$50, I couldn't see a reason not to try one out. Excited and will update!

 

I’m using an A55 with the latest MrWalkman firmware for the model based on the WM1A firmware. I also have a WM1A running the latest Walkman One release. The A55 has less power and is less refined than the WM1A, which is my main portable player, but it’s tiny and durable and so is my go to for in the car or travel where luggage space is a concern. And I don’t have to feel bad for not being precious with it.

I agree it’s best for IEMs, since power is limited, but of course it works great with efficient headphones like the Meze 99s or Porta Pros.

I use the same memory card with both players, shut down one and move the card to the other. Since the software is effectively the same moving back and forth is easy.

After a couple bad Android player experiences I’m not interested in anything running Android. The Linux based firmware for these older walkmans is solid.

 

Thanks for the info about the OS of the DAPs. Didn't realize the Walkmans weren't always Android based. Good to know I'll be on the Linux based firmware.

 

@Tchoupitoulas selling his ZX2 DAP, which I hesitated too long on, has got me pondering players. I've got a iFI Nano Black Label that I plug into my iPhone or iPad or laptop, but I find it slightly clumsy and awkward.

Probably I'll just hang on to it as a good enough solution, but does anyone have a ready rec for a DAP under say $500. Also willing to go used.

I've also got a Mojo 1 in storage, but the battery's dead. Will need to fix that at some point.

IEMs include OG Andromeda, iSine 20, and JVC FDX. I'd like to add an LCD-i4 at some point, too. I really like the Audeze, weird as they are, and find that they do a lot better with some power. So I'd ideally be looking at a DAP with some oomph power-wise. Solid UI also desirable.

 

It's a bit more than $500, but I picked up an open-box Shanling M6 Ultra that I'm super happy with. on low gain it drives Solaris OG and Andro wonderfully with no hiss, but on ultra/high gain it also drives JAR660S wonderfully as well (4.4mm balanced out). I use it as a USB source into BF2/EC Af when I'm feeling saucy, but on it's own w/JAR660S I'm very content. It manhandles my 7Hz Timeless planar IEMs, too, keeping the somewhat flaccid/flabby bass in check. I think @supertransformingdhruv is using his M6 Ultra w/ Euclid, so perhaps he could chime in with some more direct experience with Audeze IEMs.

 

Has there been any progress in DAPs with a replaceable battery? Im limiting my budget for one at $300 but would double or triple if I knew I could swap the battery. I keep my electronics for 5-10 years.

 

I've been very happy using my M6 Ultra with Euclid, but I'm also occasionally enjoying it with my LCD-X. In both cases, I'm using the 4.4mm balanced out and low gain. I find that the additional power from the balanced output goes a long way with both planars, providing significant improvements especially tightening the bass. The M6U addresses the Euclid's power requirements very well but isn't quite enough for the LCD-X, which does continue to scale with additional power. I'd describe the M6U as having a forward and aggressive presentation, which I think pairs well with the dark Audeze house sound. It adds a bit of much-needed energy.