DAP discussion thread

I actually bought my Zx300 from JoyBuy too. I bought my R6 for not a lot more than what I paid for the joy buy zx300. But even at that price I found the ZX300 underwhelming. At this point, I think we are simply going in circles. As I said in the previous page:

"Do you own a good desktop or speaker setup?
If yes, ZX300 is just fine for portable use. It is reliable and gets the job done.

If no, are you able to spend $800?
If yes, pick up a pre-owned WM1A.

If no, are you willing to take the risk with a Chinese brand DAP?
If yes, do some research or PM me.

If no, then you are back to square one. Don’t overthink this and get the ZX300."

 

Animus, which iBasso DAPs have you heard?

 

160 and 220 are the ones that I have the most experience with. Not fond of either.

 

I'm tempted to get a Dethonray DTR1 as it sounds like it has the best SQ/dollar out there at the moment. The bare bones interface might actually impose some discipline on my increasingly ADHD listening habits.

Anyone here heard it?

 

I have a friend who had one. Decent timbre and tonality but hisses like a snake and stages like a flatscreen TV (their description of it, not mine).

 

Hmmm what are your recommended DAPs?

 

I still think the Sony stuff is the most cohesive package on the market. Their two fatal flaws are a lack of streaming (not an issue for me because I despise streaming services) and not being especially detailed for a TOTL DAP. If you really want a shit ton of detail, you inevitably need to trade off in tonality and timbre. If you’re willing to do that then Kann Kube, LPGT, the original LPG (the least classically chifi digital sounding of all these DAPs imo) and SP1K become options.

Regarding all the other chifi stuff like FiiO, Ibasso, Cayin, Hiby etc. most of it really does not sound good. FiiO’s players have consistently been really shit. M11 has some of the most featureless bass I’ve ever heard and the Pro just sounds straight up dark. Ibasso’s stuff gives me RME PTSD. Claustrophobic stage, nonexistent dynamics, insidiously glarey treble. It’s pretty impressive how most of this Head-fi “value for money” hype stuff is just stinkers.

 

The M11pro is not dark in any way. It's very well extended at the extremes, and has a hint of warmth in the mids and bass. The combo of 4497 and thx amps is a precise but not too clinical presentation that is a great value for 650. Having usb-c is a nice addition too. Short battery life is the only real drawback for me. The firmware is stable and user friendly and works just fine.it's not super streamlined like the AK OS, but there's no real bugs.

 

I dunno, I find it dark, everyone I know who’s heard it in real life finds it dark. In either case the whack tonality isn’t the only issue. The pervasive AKM treble timbre, the mediocre bass control, the flat dynamics and the ever-annoying AKM velvet sound thing where everything lacks impact and gravitas are just as bad if not worse. FiiO should have stuck to portable amps.

 

My ZX300 is the worst source I own for the CA Solaris. Worse than my desktop setup, my GO V2A and its glare and hiss and worse than both my phones. It's closed in/small SS, not dynamic at all, and has some weird brightness in the upper mids, which is odd considering its otherwise warm signature and pretty undetailed signature.

 

Just curious, but is that running balanced out of the 4.4 or SE on the 3.5?

 

Both. Balanced gives a little more details and dynamics but makes the upper mids/lower treble more wonky.

 

Never really been a ZX300 fan. The SE out is legitimately one of the worst sources I’ve ever heard and the Balanced out is just ok. Too syrupy for my taste.

I would generally default to the 1A (or the ZX500 if you really need streaming and are willing to sacrifice sound quality for it) as a recommendation. It’s not the world’s most dynamic sound (no portable source is) and it won’t tame the Solaris’ upper mids (which are just harsh period IMO. part of the transducer’s own characteristics, because the Solaris SE doesn’t have it at all) but it has a slightly warm sound good-izer type of signature that generally works with whatever you throw at it.

 

Everything you're saying, I felt about the x5iii and the AK Kann, but not the M11pro. The velvet sound BS isn't prevalent to me here as it has been on other daps.

 

The OG Kann was weird. It sounds like it has a depression past, say, 5khz, but a sudden rise after like 10khz. Probably the least gross sounding A&K DAP there is though, aside from the tonal balance it sounds relatively normal. When I hear the M11 Pro that distinct AKM treble tonality is super obvious to me. Then again I don’t think I’ve heard an AKM implementation without it.

 

Dude, the Kann is the fakest sounding player they ever made. Everything lower cost from the ak100ii to the sr15 was better sounding. I think you might be a sony fanboy, yes? I like the Sony sound and battery life, but hate the laggy ui.

 

The SR15, SE100 and SP1KM all share a familial sound to me. That is, midcentric with this uncanny valley fake warmth and completely dead dynamically. Between those and the Kann with its bizarre tonality but otherwise relatively normal timbre I’d take the Kann. Though I’d rather not listen to music than listen to iRiver.

A lot of people have accused me of being a Sony fanboy (not on here but elsewhere) and frankly it’s as true as it is false. The reality is that in DAPs, everyone else is doing the lazy chifi method of using the latest AKM/ESS chip and an otherwise unnoteworthy output stage design that usually does nothing to fix the inherent timbre and tonality issues of a lot of these chips. Sony are the only ones doing this pulse wave modulation/class D thing that actually sounds fairly different from the rest of the stuff on the market. I guess there’s those PCM1704 things that Hifiman are making but I prefer forgetting that Hifiman exist. In other words, if someone else was doing something interesting with DAPs, I’d be paying attention to them. Unfortunately, no one really is.

The laggy UI of the original 1A/1Z release was fixed all the way back in the 1.2 or so firmware. The current firmware is much, much better in responsiveness than it used to be.

 

Can confirm this. Honestly had even forgotten that the 1A and 1Z (I have both) ever had those issues as it was so long ago.

 

This line sounds straight from Chord Electronics' Marketing Guide. A recent SBAF favourite, DM Convert 2 uses the 'lazy chifi method'. End of the day what matters the most is how the thing sounds and design is only secondary. Sony DAPs also exhibit every one of those unfavourable characteristic you have attributed to other DAC chips, to various degrees depending on the model, including the 1A and 1Z. They all exhibit softness, blunt attacks, some scratchiness in the treble, veil, doesn't hit hard etc.

 

Except that Chord’s FPGA isn’t the only alternative to chifi Toppings and Gustards. There is a shit ton more variation and experimentation in the desktop world than there is in DAPs.

Convert 2 most definitely does not follow what I described. The 1955 chip is way, way better than any of the garbage AKM Velvet or ESS Sabre crap chifi DAP makers are using, not to mention Dangerous using a opamp based output stage that actually uses good opamps and is well designed. You’ve generalized the difference between a good D/S implementation and a lazy halfassed one for sake of argument.

The Sony stuff is not as directly hard hitting and incisive as desktop units or portable amplifiers, but they absolutely slam harder than every other DAP on the market. Only the 1Z exhibits veil, and I’m not particularly fond of it either due to how colored and intensely warm it is. As for scratchiness, I don’t know what you listened to, but it’s definitely not what I’m hearing. All the chifi shit that’s frequently recommended is orders of magnitude more digital sounding.