Delta Sigma: An Inconvenient Truth

Discussion in 'Digital: DACs, USB converters, decrapifiers' started by k4rstar, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    I blame k4 for getting me curious about that TDA1541 chip and going down the rabbit hole of all the various implementations of it. Now I'm drooling over that Marantz DAC. I don't know if I should bite on that "Junk" one on Yahoo Auctions Japan and then get it serviced. Just wait til a good unit shows up and buy it. Do an SBAF tour. Yggdrasil is probably the closest thing to it.
     
  2. Josh83

    Josh83 Friend

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    I’m pretty surprised by this take on the Solaris, which was the first DS DAC that made me reconsider my Multibit focus. (I’m moving in the opposite direction from you, I guess.) But the USB input is significantly worse than its AES or coax. Even just an Eitr to coax input is a dramatic step up.
     
  3. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Someone I trust PM'd me saying to stay far away from TDA1541 DACs. Sigh. That Marantz looked cool as hell.

    I don't know what it is about delta sigma DACs, but they suck the life out of classical music. Timbre on strings sounds incredibly off, where on Yggdrasil moves me to tears. Even strings on popular music sounds spot on as well. It's not just resolving the differences in the violin family, but all the nuances and particularities that separate different say cello models. I wonder if someone could discern the exact model year, strings and materials used in cellos being played on certain recordings LOL. It's so much more emotionally involving. I'm not a classical geek, but I can hear the different bass strings my favorite bassist plays in a rock band. It's nuts.

    Pianos are another thing that blows my mind. Every other DAC I've heard just gives you the sound of a piano and the types within that, but if I knew anything about pianos I bet I could figure out the differences within say upright pianos. It even resolves this on pop recordings as well. I'm sorta obsessed with pianos so its a treat. Just don't understand why that's such a Yggdrasil thing. I'm not talking about "detail" either. Is there a delta sigma DAC that can resolve like a Yggdrasil can?
     
  4. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Then why not just stick with Yggdrasil for a while? You’re kind of like a manic addict at this point, hunting for the next big hit. Why not chill a bit, and work on other parts of your system, or just enjoy the music? There’s likely going to be a new Yggdrasil launched this year, and based on Jason’s prior comments, existing owners should get some love hopefully (though I don’t know if that will apply to used Yggys).
     
  5. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Haha I was interested in an explanation why Yggdrasil sounds like it does compared to delta sigma DACs.

    Well I got the speakers and amplifier figured out. No moving from that. I guess I should be less autistic about source. My current speakers/amp are just too revealing of sources. Heck even preamp changes. I haven't hooked up the Yggdrasil to the XA25 yet, just been slumming it with my Modi 2 Uber and phone DAC. However Rednet has improved all the DACs I've had on hand, even diminishing quite a bit of that velvety-yellowish-bloomy-glow of the 4490 Modi 2 Uber. Still there though. If my DAC had i2s, I would grab a Pi2AES.

    I dunno man the Matrix Pro sounds like a good fit and if its anything like the ESS chip in my phone, I'd like that a lot. It's elusive, gets sold every time I ask a seller. Its a sign...
     
  6. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Alright, well it was worth a shot. I can understand the pull of wanting better/different. Sometimes I just like hearing different things which ends up further locking in my preference for what I already have. Make sure you don’t offload Yggdrasil too quickly.
     
  7. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Yggdrasil is currently enroute to the morgue for autopsy.
     
  8. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Ah right, forgot about that. Ok well hold on to it once it’s been resurrected!
     
  9. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    I will admit that out of all the DACs in that list I spent the least amount of time with the Solaris. my unit was a demo from VintageKing so it had plenty of hours on it, I used it with both USB and S/PDIF in via a RME 9632 PCI card.

    do you own it still or just demo it? I am curious if you own it what you think of it with guitar tone, that was what really stood out to me as a dealbreaker. it couldn't render electric guitar distortion properly or the natural sibilants of an acoustic guitar, everything was smoothed over and polite.

    nice things I will say about it, the headphone output is pretty good, the illusion of depth is the best I have experienced from a DS DAC, I love the aesthetics and the designer Dave Hill always returned my emails within a day when I had questions.
     
  10. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Yep so meanwhile I'm playing around with different sources. I'm stuck in the problem k4 mentioned before, cycling through the same old songs cause other stuff that sounded great with Yggdrasil just is so lackluster with Modi 2 Uber. But damn I'm impressed by the LG V30 though. I get the illusion of being at a live concert for the first time, but might be more attributed to the amp.

    Oh and the Apple Dongle is butt. Avoid at all costs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  11. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Maybe you’d like some of the other newer Sabre stuff then, if it’s well-built and implemented like the Matrix. There’s bound to be some other more heroic Sabre designs out there. I was looking at a dual mono sabre dac from Musical Fidelity the other day, although I think it was 9028 pro rather than the 9038 in the Matrix.
     
  12. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    What got you interested in looking at that? Any good reviews or impressions? Not sure what your preference is, but I like to avoid easygoing, relaxed, mellow, polite sounding DACs. It's why I put more stock in what purr1n likes, since he doesn't like that kind of a presentation either.
     
  13. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    [​IMG]

    didn't you already buy a Magnavox player? you should try that and decide for yourself if TDA1541 DACs are to be stayed far away from
     
  14. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Lol it arrives Wednesday. FWIW don't like the Sabre with classical music either. I just like the lack of warmth a lot. Modi 2 sounds smeared in comparison.
     
  15. rlow

    rlow A happy woofer

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    Just happened to be listed on the audiomart for like half retail, so checked it out and saw some decent reviews. Not saying that is the one to look at, but may be some others like that.
     
  16. k4rstar

    k4rstar Britney fan club president

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    sabre has its own transient warmth, it just manifests itself differently.

    I am not saying do not buy the matrix or buy the matrix. buy and try whatever you can, within means and within reason. just don't be surprised if a new toy holds the same conclusion you reached from the old one.

    about trusting others - if I continued to only follow the overall approach, advice and recommendations of those I thought I trusted or that I could trust a year ago I would still be dissatisfied with my system today. each teacher can only show you what they know and then you must transcend that. you should study Buddhism and what it means to kill your guru, it may give you some relief from your current manic search. the parallels between it and audiophile gear cycling are fascinating

     
  17. robot zombie

    robot zombie Friend

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    I have the G8, which I believe has that same ESS 9218P SoC in it. I'm not sure the history of it. Clock, DAC, and amp on one chip, which apparently has its advantages. Amp is advertised to do 2v. Sometimes phones make good things happen. It makes sense to have one package set up. Cheaper and probably takes a few potential performance chippers out of the equation.

    That thing does actually sound kinda friggin good though! I was a little surprised to find out it was a Sabre chip. And then I was like "my phone is letting me choose filter roll-off... okay..." I was happy to have the option to not use minimum phase.

    I actually have a Modi 2 Uber on hand, one of the first 4490's from the early silent revision. In some ways I prefer the phone over it, even if it's not nearly as resolving. Bit more body and it doesn't have that slightly diffuse, papery sorta deal with the upper treble. Less forward presentation all around. The M2U wins on the technicalities, but the Quad DAC actually sounds a little more musical. I definitely like the tone of it more and it doesn't suck at other things, considering it's in a phone.
     
  18. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    There's some good psychological insight from Buddhism but its still a mere paganism. Sorry not a fan. It is nihilistic, Nietzsche was right, and a monstrosity on the planet. I'd rather live under an Islamic theocracy.

    Regarding advice/recommendations, I will take them and try for myself. There are a few who know what they are talking about after I've bought what they've recommended (my current speakers and amp for example).

    It's not so much a manic search, but just trying out different things and seeing what I like the most.
     
  19. skem

    skem Friend

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    This thread has become DAC Talk III. :)

    edit: This thread has become DAC Talk Therapy I.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  20. RobS

    RobS RobS? More like RobDiarrhea.

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    Completely agree. It sounds more musical and has a great tone.

    LOL people give me so much grief for using my LG phone as a DAC, but f**k em...it sounded really f'ing good! Too good actually. Supposedly LG built it for audio first and then a phone second. Glad I don't look as insane if someone else confirms the same thing.

    I was surprised it was a Sabre as well considering how hostile other audiophiles were against them. Maybe the older chips were offensively bad.
     

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