Denon D7200 (new flagship)

Discussion in 'Headphones' started by OJneg, Aug 30, 2016.

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  1. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Dekoni has rings on some but not all pads.
    I do not know how Dekoni pads fit so if someone post pic on Dennon with Dekoni pads would help.
    Those rings were shaped for the thx00 series and have a small oval opening.
    I do not like this as it is basically covering part of driver to alter frequencies.

    Instead of that plastic crap,
    You basically only need a large ring in back by the plastic clip ring,
    to create a better seal for any pads which loose bass.

    The Audeze pads look bigger than the headphones so not optimal as they loose all bass and too big,
    but have better clarity over some others.
    Audeze pads definitely require rings to seal in the bass.

    So far my best pads were thr Ori pads they do not lose the bass so don't need any crap plastic adapters ...

    Edit:
    other pads need work.
    Still need to try the Dekoni to see how compare to the Ori.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
  2. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    So i have to say Dennon have done a decent job in attempt to beat the fostex with the driver in this unit,

    And I do believe this Dennon driver is superior to all the biocellulous drivers in any headphone currently available.
    (Not sure if even Klipsch will eclipse it using an upcoming Fostex driver.)

    But as usual they skimp on going all the way to try match Utopia resolution.
    I guessing that was not the goal.
    Plus they departed from Dennon signatures of the past.

    I know I keep harping about no one trying to match/surpass Utopia,
    But this is the only headphones I found that could have had the potential.
    Not in stock form though...
    ;)
     
  3. cizx.6

    cizx.6 Just couldn't stay away...

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    AH-D7200

    Reference Over-Ear Headphones with Denon unique FreeEdge Driver

    $599.40

    dm-direct.com

    Tempting.
     
  4. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    This must have been their goal...
    Competition in sales & undercutting competition.
    I guess being such big company is how they can do This
    For this price your getting a capable headphone matching/besting others in higher price league.
    :)
    .
     
  5. Mshenay

    Mshenay Barred from loaner program. DON'T SEND ME GEAR.

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    That price on the D7200 is what keeps pulling me back to it, @Maxx134 what was the amp your running them through in your previous set of pictures?
     
  6. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    APPJ 1502A mini amp:

    Class-A single-ended triode and 100% tube amplification, not a hybrid,
    capable of 1W at 32ohm,
    using Beam power tetrodes for output.

    Best of all, iy can be had for under $200,
    and once perform simple upgrades,
    It elevates performance to very high level,
    Under-cutting most other amps under $1k (!) IMHO..

    Mod thread here..

    I used it alot for my HEKV2.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
  7. Orkney

    Orkney Acquaintance

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    I'm enjoying my 7200s, either running from a Mac C22 or the Ember I've finally finished. They're not world-beatiers, but they're consistently good-sounding and, for a closed HP in my experience, produce a decent sense of a recording's spatial cues and, in live tracks especially, their musical dynamics also. If they fit, they're a solid all-rounder, IMO.

    EDIT: Miine came with pads that are decidedly asymmetrical, with one much thicker than the other, a la every pair of Audezes I've ever owned. I'm not particularly obsessive about such things, but accrding to my vendor this is a pretty common complaint. Just a heads-up.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  8. Cradon

    Cradon Acquaintance

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    I'm really enjoying mine that are @Maxx134 modded and hardwired. I've had them about 2 months now and imo they're right up there with my Utopia and Susvara because of how engaging a sound they produce. These are keepers for me and I've had or heard all the top closed out.
     
  9. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Agree, not in stock form, but potential is there I have done it.

    Yeah I had done work on both the Eikons and the Dennons and also the HEKV2....

    The Eikons proved impossible to make public as it required driver modding, yet was able to increase resolution by only a bit.

    The HEKV2 was simple enough thanks to member "Cradon"access to the Susvara, and so can/will be posted soon, very nice and straight forward.

    The work on the Dennons took me into a rabbit hole of finding out just how far the Dennons could go...
    Was fun but A hell of alot of testing lol.

    The issue here is *edit* it also takes driver modifications with which cannot be replicated easily,
    and the best damping material *edit*- was made to order overseas as it not available to buy here in US.

    At first I thought it would take a long time to find a suitable replacement for the optimal damping materials,
    because you cannot just fill in the dennon wood cavity,
    as it needs the space in its cup for the driver to "breathe" thru its porting scheme..

    But just as I was going to abandon this, my wife found it, I so I can replicate this Dennon mod for others soon.
    Since I have a somewhat busy life things will move a bit slow as I find out how to proceed.
    I am not a businman, just a hobbyist and tinkerer.
    If they had any cans at the Utopia level, then this endeavor would have never happened.

    A very early first rough/crude internal mod prototype was at the last HeadFi meet, and was already preferred over the Utopia,
    but only with the powerful amp that was there (woo waa ) and was no where near as refined as it is now..

    Even the version member boozebuttons heard from Crandon did not have the level of detailing and stage and clarity achieved now.

    I should have some measument data to show by next week,
    I want to see if I can have my measurement rig as similar as possible to the SBAF measurement gear thread .

    ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2017
  10. cizx.6

    cizx.6 Just couldn't stay away...

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    why can't a company do one correctly right from the factory? I'm not finishing anyone's engineering homework.
     
  11. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Easy answer,
    look at what happened to the fabled early Sony models...

    Usually Big company usually ruins or limits engineers,
    and turns ideal designs into cost efficient as sales producing stuff with all types changes...
    so every department gets their grubby hands into the mix pot,
    and what is the final product that comes out is always compromised...

    edit
    anyways we cant be mislead that there is any comprimise here.
    The cans are great as is ,
    and was their target of under a $1k product.
    They are a success and we just found out they can be made to be over-achievers.

    we really talking about an experimant to achieve more actually worked.
    sensitivity is also increased.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  12. dpump

    dpump New

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    Maxx134,

    Curious as to why you keep calling them Dennons when it should be Denon?
     
  13. cizx.6

    cizx.6 Just couldn't stay away...

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    This should go well.

    Okay, but there are boutique companies like ZMF and larger specialty companies like HiFiMan and even Audeze who don't have those large bureaucratic money grubbers stifling innovation. Why does everything they release need to be modded in order to sound right?

    Is this a disease of the industry, or a compulsion of the community?

    Anyway, if anyone wants a pair, I might order them from dm-direct just because.
     
  14. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    This is my latest tunning as of today as I was prmarily focused on clarity and the waterfall plots...
    Latest Tunnings.png
    As you can see they are substantially cleaner than stock, and at a full 35db down on the waterfall pic.
    You can check stock in the measurement thread.
    Everything above 5khz is way under 1ms :)
    So now they are now even more cleaner than what member Cradon heard but also a different FR.
    Next, I will lower/manipulate the frequency response in the treble area around 7-8k a bit..
    Differences above 10khz will be more dependent on measurement rig.
    I like to use REW, but will switch to ARTA for easier comparisons later.
    **Edit**
    Modded the headphone further and pretty much settled on a curve in between the Abyss & the susvera.
    Will post a separate thread for this.

    Edit:
    Sept2 status & comparison:
    [​IMG]
    :)
    Not finalized yet..
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  15. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    For those with headband issues, I did try and opened the band but there was just too much taped foam inside,
    so I could not reach the center without possibly breaking the leather..
    looks like an ugly exterior padding would have to do for those with headband hot-spot issues...
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017
  16. Schlappen

    Schlappen New

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    Hi there,

    I read, that you planned a loaner program for the D7200.
    When can I read the reviews, because I am very interested at it. I have the D7200 too.

    Thanks and kind regards from Germany
    Schlappen
     
  17. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Loaner program in other thread.

    Here are some my impressions:


    To me,
    The 7200 is the only new headphone currently out that actually contains a driver capable of reaching Elite status....

    IMO combines the sonic strengths of natural sounding biocelulous (non metalic driver) with the higher resolution class of hd800 capability.

    To me it's resolution is superior than th600, th900, and even latest other closed cans I had (Flow, Eikon)..

    What it does not excell at, is Soundstage.
    Yet I myself have abandoned the large Soundstage type cans because I found myself enjoying this Dennon sound better.

    For a closed can it does alot very well.
    Personally, I didn't like the signature much in stock form,
    but I knew right away it was special due to the level of resolution it has.

    The Dennon has exact pad fit of an Ether pads and ZMF Ori pads.
    I still have to try the Dekoni pads.

    I am currently using Ether Electrostatic pads.
    They give me best Soundstage.



    There is a shuddering low end in the bass that is more noticable with the Ori pads.
    It is a bass that I have not heard at all in any of the others.
    This I attributed to the driver low extension, and the shallow wood cup wich is actually an advantage as there is no cavernous cup sound like aome may have noticed in other cans.

    Only issue with Ori pads,
    is the rest of spectrum is toned down and ambiance is subdued.

    Larger pads like Audeze, will give extreme clarity,
    but you will loose bass and get a much brighter signature, like an HD800,
    because loss of bass seal at rear of pad...

    To offset this, place two of these rings in pads:

    *Pic*
    20170728_204432.jpg

    Either the clear, or the yellow will do the job to restore bass on larger or looser fitting pads...

    Do not buy the garbage plastic rings sold by Dekoni and such, which partially cover the driver.
     
  18. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    I'm going to edit up my impressions and post them here in a bit but a lot of the details are surface.

    There are other details that I feel they only do okay at like reverb trails. Depth is important to me and the headphone is starting to sound a bit fake to me now. At first when it arrived I was really impressed but it def needs some modding. A lot of potential but based on the timbre, which I do not see changing even with mods, I'd still take my Atticus over these. I am also not one of those folks that get all giddy about bio drivers. I like em but based on the ones I have heard, I think it is over-rated.

    I am shipping these off the cskippy tonight.
     
  19. Maxx134

    Maxx134 Dunning–Kruger effect poster boy

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    Yep Stock signature from memory was not ideal for me and why I post Pad alternatives because driver resolution is still its strength.


    Normally not much difference but I myself have done significant changes to signature and reasonance:
    Sep13 Comparison2.jpg

    Which is an ongoing project of mine.
    :)
    Herr is stock pic from measurements thread:
    Denon AH-D7200 Left FR HANDS.png

    And here is my current sig:
    Dennon7200 FR Sep13.jpg
    :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  20. gbeast

    gbeast Mighty Moral Power Ranger

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    [​IMG]
    These were basically my notes. I have been particularly busy lately but this is what I gots...

    DENON D7200


    • Listening out of the box is impressive. I personally believe they tuned this headphone to scrape up the nuance in the recording and let you see it easier.
    • The lower treble and upper midrange is emphasized but the middle treble is not too boosted and even though it sounds a bit bright for my tastes, I honestly can’t call it a ‘bright’ headphone with confidence.
    • The bass is boosted and gives good foundation and while it has a faster decay with less cup resonance than my Atticus, it doesn’t hit as hard even if sometimes seems to have good control.
    • I feel like it needs a bass port or something because even though it has a lot of presence, the bass sounds just a bit compressed to me. Not sure what could fix this.
    • On Lavender Diamond “Dragonfly” the bass line has good texture and control with good sub bass extension. Her voice is forward and crystal clear on the Denon 7200. A song like this is the D72’s bread and butter. It actually sounds just a bit too forward but the recording is mixed a bit dark and D72’s open it up a bit.
    • Compared to every other D2’s I have heard (2000-7000) I think this headphone is tuned better, and while not perfect it is still better than those in a lot of regards.
    • Boosting the bass was something I tried not add more but just to see if it could sound less compressed and it seems pretty stubborn.
    • Overall I have to say that it does good at micro-dynamics and only okay at macro-dynamics.
    • I also feel like it is not a headphone that will change much depending on amping. It is what it is from jump.
    • It also sounds pretty open for a closed back headphone and the treble extension is pretty good.
    • Transients are sharp and decay seems just a bit unnatural to me
    • Sustain is missing by only a little and sustenance seems just a bit elusive.
    • The main issue I have sometimes is that the tones sound a bit too sharp. They need to be rounded more at the peak of an attack. It is weird because kick drums don’t sound full enough but snares have good bite and decent snap. They just sound a bit too sharp and needle like and percussion sounds more ‘prickly’ and tinkly than punchy and weighted. So the short story is that the timbre could use some improvement because while it gives good details it doesn’t sound natural doing it.
    • Other times those details are fun to listen to.
    • The soundstage is good enough to enjoy the headphone for sure but the Atticus engulfs it. It takes the same images and gives better space around them as well as gives them more depth, girth, and width.
    • Things like tambourines etc sound a bit fake at times but come through with good clarity. The Atticus reveals reverb trails better though and even though the Atticus doesn’t present the details as forward or in your face as the Denon, I hear background noise etc more localized, and the ambience of the recording or venue space better resolved.
     

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